Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[Durga]

i see him lurking though

[connorcompton]

Sorry, still here. Trying to somewhat catch up now.

[et]

Why you didn't post?

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 3.6
xorxes (5) - Squigs44, Durga, Balki Bartokomous, Percy Williams, Nephthys
Foxcastle (3) - FlaviusAetius, ChippeRock, teacon7
Teacon (3) - rdrivera2005, Foxcastle, Peterlund
FlaviusAetius (1) - damo666
Percy Williams (1) - xorxes
et (1) - ND
ND (1) - et

Connorcompton must cast a valid vote before Day ends.
Connorcompton has been nudged.

Currently XORXES is set to be lynched.

Less than three hours remain.

[teacon7]

If we're trying to make sense of why tom was killed + cleaned, understanding maf motivation might be important. There's too much wifom dealing with whether Tom was PR or not, but scum still thought he was worth killing + cleaning. Why? That's useful to think about even now. I don't think it was just because he was perceived as towny, and I don't think it was because he was reporter, but I don't know why else it might be. Hence my question about scum motivation.

Can you spell out your theory? I'm not sure I understand.

This largely has to do with a thought process I pursued yesterday.

I asked myself: Why did Tom die? Why did they bother to clean Tom?

Tom's NK by itself is only slightly significant. d1 when I was around he was acting strange, multiple people said he was acting strange, and I said that I'd want to re-read him. n1-n2 I was gone, but whatever he did was enough for scum not only to kill him, but to use a 1-off janitor power to clean him. So yesterday I did
RR, to figure out what happened.

Possibilities for why scum thought it best that to NK Tom :
a) they thought he was too towny
b) they thought he was PR
c) they thought maybe he was BA.

(a) is durga's contention. She says scum don't PR hunt anymore and that tom was townread. I don't see it, but I'll want to RR tom n1-n2 with context before agreeing to a townread-tom-only scenario for his death+clean. If we're going with "he looked really town" then there's all sorts of other people to kill, not just tom. Why not NK durga or rdriv?
(c) is possible. Maybe they thought tom's strange behavior was 3rd-party-psych.
(b) was my initial thought. They're hunting PR. Weak PR or not, they're better off without PR around. Their framer and lawyer are useless with the cop gone, but the hooker and assassin could still get caught by the reporter. n2 they didn't know how well they were going to be doing d3, so PR-hunting n2 seems like reasonable scum play.

So to test this I went back and looked for crumbs and found Tom's "hot take" thing. (side note: I'm glad foxcastle reminded us that he noted the same thing. That's a town point in his favor). Tom's crumb makes the janitor power use make sense.

The conclusions are that I think maf was PR hunting. They killed+cleaned because they thought tom was PR. Any wifommy side effects of the clean are good for scum in the long run, so it was a good use of the clean regardless.

That said, I weighed what this conclusion does to our current gamestate. Is rdriv faking a reporter claim to find the BA? I don't think so. That's really improbable.

iirc, this whole discussion started with a discussion of the legitimacy of all these claims, and whether we know things 100% or not. We don't know stuff for certain. It seems probable to me that rdriv is for real, and that balki is for real, and less probable that neph is for real. I figure we won't know until tomorrow, so having considered it, the three of them are off the table lynch wise.

[Durga]

I can't be here starting an hour from now rdr. I don't think teacon is it for today, but ultimately I will follow you because town needs to vote together. Please think about this carefully. There are too many people avoiding xorx as a lynch.

There is a chance I can get on before 3pm EoD after but I have no clue.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I'm basically in the same boat as Durga. I have a 10:00 am PT meeting, that may role right through the deadline. Not sure. Need to consolidate soon.

[connorcompton]

Why you didn't post?

To answer directly, a lack of time and motivation.
After the sheer amount of time D1 took away from me I needed a break. I will not be able to put that much of my time in anymore.

Anyway, interesting move you've done. I find it quite exciting. If you are voting for me to get me to talk, I quite respect that. While reading the last 10 pages I've gone back and forth on you. But I think your town.

[connorcompton]

Just a general point to throw out there:
I'm not sure how this website's "Users browsing this forum:" specifically works, but this tab is always open on my computer so I wouldn't be surprised if it looks like I'm always online.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@connor,

Quick recap:

rdrivera has claimed reporter, with a report on Foxy N1 (at home), and Balki on N2 (away from home).

Balki has claimed Blind Assassin, with a win condition that depends on lynching mafia. I'm a third party, but I need to balance the game.

Mafia is obviously way ahead, so if you are town, you need to give us enough info so that we can sort you as town. It would be really useful if you could give us a quick rundown on who you think the scum team is.

And, obviously, we need you to vote.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Also, Neph is almost certainly the Judge.

[et]

If we're trying to make sense of why tom was killed + cleaned, understanding maf motivation might be important. There's too much wifom dealing with whether Tom was PR or not, but scum still thought he was worth killing + cleaning. Why? That's useful to think about even now. I don't think it was just because he was perceived as towny, and I don't think it was because he was reporter, but I don't know why else it might be. Hence my question about scum motivation.

Can you spell out your theory? I'm not sure I understand.

This largely has to do with a thought process I pursued yesterday.

I asked myself: Why did Tom die? Why did they bother to clean Tom?

Tom's NK by itself is only slightly significant. d1 when I was around he was acting strange, multiple people said he was acting strange, and I said that I'd want to re-read him. n1-n2 I was gone, but whatever he did was enough for scum not only to kill him, but to use a 1-off janitor power to clean him. So yesterday I did
RR, to figure out what happened.

Possibilities for why scum thought it best that to NK Tom :
a) they thought he was too towny
b) they thought he was PR
c) they thought maybe he was BA.

(a) is durga's contention. She says scum don't PR hunt anymore and that tom was townread. I don't see it, but I'll want to RR tom n1-n2 with context before agreeing to a townread-tom-only scenario for his death+clean. If we're going with "he looked really town" then there's all sorts of other people to kill, not just tom. Why not NK durga or rdriv?
(c) is possible. Maybe they thought tom's strange behavior was 3rd-party-psych.
(b) was my initial thought. They're hunting PR. Weak PR or not, they're better off without PR around. Their framer and lawyer are useless with the cop gone, but the hooker and assassin could still get caught by the reporter. n2 they didn't know how well they were going to be doing d3, so PR-hunting n2 seems like reasonable scum play.

So to test this I went back and looked for crumbs and found Tom's "hot take" thing. (side note: I'm glad foxcastle reminded us that he noted the same thing. That's a town point in his favor). Tom's crumb makes the janitor power use make sense.

The conclusions are that I think maf was PR hunting. They killed+cleaned because they thought tom was PR. Any wifommy side effects of the clean are good for scum in the long run, so it was a good use of the clean regardless.

That said, I weighed what this conclusion does to our current gamestate. Is rdriv faking a reporter claim to find the BA? I don't think so. That's really improbable.

iirc, this whole discussion started with a discussion of the legitimacy of all these claims, and whether we know things 100% or not. We don't know stuff for certain. It seems probable to me that rdriv is for real, and that balki is for real, and less probable that neph is for real. I figure we won't know until tomorrow, so having considered it, the three of them are off the table lynch wise.

Cop died at Night2. And probably BA killed cop.

[rdrivera2005]

Does anybody hear that sound? Anybody know what it is?

* pauses for dramatic effect

That's the sound of scum scrambling.

rdrivera, I don't think it's a good idea to keep Xorxes alive just because it was "too quiet." We have ND pushing ET, Damo pushing basically anyone but Xorxes, teacon pushing Foxy Knoxy. I mean...that's intense. I don't think you should expect six scum to joinm together and push a counterwagon. But this is about as much subtle Xorx defending as you would expect if he is scum. And nobody is actually defending him (also what you would expect). They are just pushing other wagons.

You are spoiling my attempt to get the thread going (but I think it worked a bit as people started to move).
Xorxes was already at six votes, if I jump in he will just be steamrolled and we have no info.
And my vote at least get Teacon making an effort.

[et]

Why you didn't post?

To answer directly, a lack of time and motivation.
After the sheer amount of time D1 took away from me I needed a break. I will not be able to put that much of my time in anymore.

Anyway, interesting move you've done. I find it quite exciting. If you are voting for me to get me to talk, I quite respect that. While reading the last 10 pages I've gone back and forth on you. But I think your town.

Thank you to answer. Please join from now.

[Durga]

@rdr where do you want my final vote fam

[connorcompton]

I think there is a definite over-eagerness to brand people as 'lurkers' when they are likely not present.
I am not available for the majority of the times where volume of comments is highest (seemingly around 12am - 5am for me), then I reread what's been said recently and people say I'm lurking.

Of course, there is a possibility that someone who isn't active but is present just watches the conversation and tries to not expose themselves, but I doubt that as Mafia I would be consciously limiting my conversation unless people were calling me Mafia, which is the reverse of what's been happening.

Indifference on your end leads to indifference on my end.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Does anybody hear that sound? Anybody know what it is?

* pauses for dramatic effect

That's the sound of scum scrambling.

rdrivera, I don't think it's a good idea to keep Xorxes alive just because it was "too quiet." We have ND pushing ET, Damo pushing basically anyone but Xorxes, teacon pushing Foxy Knoxy. I mean...that's intense. I don't think you should expect six scum to joinm together and push a counterwagon. But this is about as much subtle Xorx defending as you would expect if he is scum. And nobody is actually defending him (also what you would expect). They are just pushing other wagons.

You are spoiling my attempt to get the thread going (but I think it worked a bit as people started to move).
Xorxes was already at six votes, if I jump in he will just be steamrolled and we have no info.
And my vote at least get Teacon making an effort.

I don't care too much. I have both teacon and Xorxes on just about every full scum team I can come up with. But I want to make sure Town/BA is voting together here because splitting votes makes shenanigans much easier during a phase where a Mislynch is a disaster. This is especially true where scum has a secretary who could coordinate some mischief.

[connorcompton]

Why you didn't post?

To answer directly, a lack of time and motivation.
After the sheer amount of time D1 took away from me I needed a break. I will not be able to put that much of my time in anymore.

Anyway, interesting move you've done. I find it quite exciting. If you are voting for me to get me to talk, I quite respect that. While reading the last 10 pages I've gone back and forth on you. But I think your town.

Thank you to answer. Please join from now.

Here's the thing though, 'join' implies a discussion, but if I have nothing to discuss then everything I would type would be completely hollow.

[connorcompton]

To answer directly, a lack of time and motivation.
After the sheer amount of time D1 took away from me I needed a break. I will not be able to put that much of my time in anymore.

Anyway, interesting move you've done. I find it quite exciting. If you are voting for me to get me to talk, I quite respect that. While reading the last 10 pages I've gone back and forth on you. But I think your town.

Thank you to answer. Please join from now.

Here's the thing though, 'join' implies a discussion, but if I have nothing to discuss then everything I would type would be completely hollow.

Oh and thanks for your thanks.

[rdrivera2005]

I can't be here starting an hour from now rdr. I don't think teacon is it for today, but ultimately I will follow you because town needs to vote together. Please think about this carefully. There are too many people avoiding xorx as a lynch.

There is a chance I can get on before 3pm EoD after but I have no clue.

Please don't change your vote now.