Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[damo666]

He lurked as VT twice as well! Did you not read the post I linked??

wtf do you know what nia means. it means his lurking is NOT ALLIGNMENT INDICATIVE. he does it as both town and scum. regardless, he's a goddamn town liability and will lose us the game at the end

NAI**** because i have issues

I couldn't help sniggering here.

[TrPrado]

FINALE

This is the last one of these. There's a very specific point to it. If I weren't asking questions then I wouldn't post these. Also fuck you Balki I only ask questions that I think the answers to are essential for me to get a feel for these people.

Tom Bombadil:

This is the last of the high volume posters. Everyone else with more than 50 posts has already been covered. And for that detail he's also pretty low impact. Votes Chippe for no reason. Calls out Carl for not calling him out for not having a reason to vote for Chippe. Suggests that's scummy behavior. He spends a decent amount of time drawing attention to how he voted but not actually saying much. "I almost voted for [Durga]" "Can't be that big a sack of shit I didn't vote for [ND]." This behavior feels very baity.

Criticizes Chippe and suggests he should share thoughts on players other than himself. Suggests people shouldn't focus on Chippe. Says Carl vs Squigs feels like town vs town. Votes for me, asks about Espresso. When et asks about why Tom is voting for me he answers

I don’t scumread ChippeRock and needed to put my vote elsewhere. His observation about ND felt unnatural and I don’t know what it accomplished besides trying to get other people to take up the torch against ND who is one of the most lynchable players in every game he is in.

This feels kinda weird because I also don't exactly get how I would have gone from my interaction with ND to taking up the torch. He read into intentions that weren't there.

Regards Flavius as suspicious for the "smart and experienced" comment, says he thinks Durga, Carl, and Squigs as probable townies. The Durga read he explains to Balki, and Tom helps push Flavius on the "smart and experienced" comment. Pushes Foxy for asking easy questions that he doesn't think the answer to matter. Defends Cruaader, casts suspicion on Balki.

Debates with Squigs about how they're looking for different scum behavior D1, says he won't say what he's looking for. Says I shouldn't be cleared for posting a lot, goes back to defending Cruaader. Votes for Foxy.

He's reserved and almost paranoid. I get the feeling that he's trying to hide something, but it also feels like he's intentionally trying to make it feel that way. Bizarre. But I like it. Asking him questions almost feels like I'd be ruining something. Carry on, mystery man.

bozotheclown:

Votes Chippe, says the VT stuff is probably a scum ploy. Presumes that the options are a rule has been broken or he has to be scum, and when the GM says there wasn't rule breaking bozo infers he has to be scum then. He says it's his only read. The only other opinion he gives is that it's too early to lynch lurkers.

QUESTIONS:

What do you make of all the people who jumped on the Chippe wagon?

rdrivera2005:

Similarly bare play. Says connor makes no sense, says he doesn't think Flavius was being defensive and that Percy's comment about how Flavius isn't this defensive as scum is "trying to frame" then goes on to suggest the Flavius list is ridiculous and too scummy to be scum. Townreads teacon for his emc vote. Suspicious of Squigs, suspicious of Foxy. Town reads connor, suggests there isn't scum motivation for Chippe to do the VT stuff. Doesn't want Balki and teacon fighting, alluding to it being town vs town.

Votes for Foxy based on what he said earlier to be a gut read. Defends Cruaader. Suggests the "smart and experienced" case on Flavius isn't really great (he's correct). Says he doesn't want to lynch lurkers but immediately throws suspicion on Moscow because him showing up is "convenient." Defends Flavius, defends me, suggests Durga is buddying everyone but says he townreads her anyway.

He has this weird thing where he seems to suggest people are suspicious but just seems to want to plant the seed of it. He never acts on it, and the only thing he has acted on is a gut feeling.

QUESTIONS:

Could you please explain your vote on Fox?

damo666:

Starts by talking about how hard it's been to catch up since he missed the first half of the day due to prior obligations. Says he picked up on the Chippe debate, the "smart and experienced" comment, the Squigs gut reads (which leads to damo scumreading Squigs), and Moscow lurking. Asks about why people are referring to bailiff as Jailer. Says Cruaader can't abstain from the vote and helps him vote for no lynch. Asks Percy why he doesn't think scum Chippe is possible but isn't sold on it either. Votes for bozo for not explaining his Chippe vote, says he thinks Carl and Chippe are town.

He's definitely flying pretty under the radar. I don't see any consistency or attempt at standing out. He's so plain and uncontroversial and I don't like that.

CruaaderReynauld:

This one should be a slam dunk. Mark this down as me being right once again. He comes in with the intention to abstain. When he's told he can't he wants to vote no lynch. He says that scum are probably the people who "seem confident about their vote" and says he wants to "see how people see him" so it's "best to not talk too much" which I'm going to break down piece by piece.

This mindset is one of scum. A new scum player, which I define as someone playing their first game on the site and draws scum in said game. Sure new town can be scared too. Sure new town can post less. But those aren't factors I'm looking at when I determine where he falls in how he falls in the criterion of Confidence in their early posts.

Does this player defer to the opinion of more experienced players?
Does this player think that it is better to take a back seat and allow more experienced players to drive the whole of discussion?
If the answer to both of the above is yes, then we've reeled in a player who behaves the way a new scum player does. And for Cruaader the answer to both of the above is yes.

The second criterion is...
Something the rest of town forgot and isn't yet something to look for so I'm keeping it close to my chest.

[Squigs44]

Bozos argument against Chippe is flawed and he isn't talking about anything else. I'd much rather he went than Flav

##vote Bozo

this is a bad vote imo.

why would you rather he go for flav? how is his argument on chippe flawed? he thinks chippe claimed "vt" for nefarious reasons, and he very much might be right about it. i agree with bozo that it's weird chippe just totally dropped it after the night was over... maybe a special someone told him to stop? just a thought but i certainly don't think bozo's argument is flawed enough to warrant this vote.

He thinks if Chippe were VT he would be modkilled, therefore Chippe cannot possibly be VT. This is just as flawed as Chippe thinking he could prove he was VT. You can't prove you someone is not VT for the same reason you can't prove you are VT.
If I was modkilled for posting my own role and not for posting others, I could mechanically confirm my own role by posting all of the other roles that aren't mine.

[Durga]

in the future trprado, can you mark your actual analysis in a different colour.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Since I don't have the gravitas to get Durga killed... sigh...

##VOTE bozotheclown

I'm not big on this lynch. But I feel reasonably good about almost everyone on it (and damo I'm merely neutral about, not actively feeling bad about), and I think there are merits from what bozo has posted.

- The case on ChippeRock isn't good
- That's literally the only thing he is talking about when so much more is going on

Plus this creates a credible counterwagon against Flavius which is helpful.

[Durga]

Bozos argument against Chippe is flawed and he isn't talking about anything else. I'd much rather he went than Flav

##vote Bozo

this is a bad vote imo.

why would you rather he go for flav? how is his argument on chippe flawed? he thinks chippe claimed "vt" for nefarious reasons, and he very much might be right about it. i agree with bozo that it's weird chippe just totally dropped it after the night was over... maybe a special someone told him to stop? just a thought but i certainly don't think bozo's argument is flawed enough to warrant this vote.

He thinks if Chippe were VT he would be modkilled, therefore Chippe cannot possibly be VT. This is just as flawed as Chippe thinking he could prove he was VT. You can't prove you someone is not VT for the same reason you can't prove you are VT.
If I was modkilled for posting my own role and not for posting others, I could mechanically confirm my own role by posting all of the other roles that aren't mine.

okay, but how is having a flawed argument scum indicative?

[FlaviusAetius]

Balki while you're waiting for answers there, how much weight do you think we can place on meta?

for example, last game I scumread Moscow on behavior, then townread him (to vote flav) when I did a by-the-numbers comparison of posting and participation. I lost. Granted that moscow is good enough to fake meta but... before you get answers on my meta, how much weight are you gonna put on meta all together?

I left the game off at page 37 before I had to go, I thought it was Balki and TrPrado, now Im even more convinced of Balki at this point, anyone who uses meta is probably just faking it, theres too much content right now to even go off of that

[TrPrado]

EOD came really fast

[et]

Bozos argument against Chippe is flawed and he isn't talking about anything else. I'd much rather he went than Flav

##vote Bozo

this is a bad vote imo.

why would you rather he go for flav? how is his argument on chippe flawed? he thinks chippe claimed "vt" for nefarious reasons, and he very much might be right about it. i agree with bozo that it's weird chippe just totally dropped it after the night was over... maybe a special someone told him to stop? just a thought but i certainly don't think bozo's argument is flawed enough to warrant this vote.

Why bad? He obviously lied about reason of voting chip. He must scum I think.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Hey Durga. Why do you seem to mind bozo dying? I thought killing lurkers was your new year new me?

[connorcompton]

@connorcompton: Can you give me examples of my comments that were useless?

I've looked through your posts. except your first, (which may be an attempt to put focus away from 'lurkers') I'm fairly sure EVERY ONE is about Chippe and the Fiasco that has ended some time ago. We've all moved on. please do the same.

[bozotheclown]

Bozos argument against Chippe is flawed and he isn't talking about anything else. I'd much rather he went than Flav

##vote Bozo

That is very vague, can you tell me exactly where you think my argument is flawed?

[TrPrado]

Hey Durga. Why do you seem to mind bozo dying? I thought killing lurkers was your new year new me?

He has the second least number of posts

[bozotheclown]

@connorcompton: Can you give me examples of my comments that were useless?

I've looked through your posts. except your first, (which may be an attempt to put focus away from 'lurkers') I'm fairly sure EVERY ONE is about Chippe and the Fiasco that has ended some time ago. We've all moved on. please do the same.

Why should I move on if I think ChippeRock is scum?

[TrPrado]

##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 1.12

FlaviusAetius(5) - Balki Bartokomous, Dargorygel, Foxcastle, Moscowfleet, Tom Bombadil
bozotheclown(5) - Percy Williams, et, Damo666, Squiggs44, Carl Tuckerson
ChippeRock(3) - bozotheclown, EspressoPatronum, Durga
TrPrado(2) - FlaviusAetius, ChippeRock
CruaaderReynauld(2) - ND, Teacon7
teacon7(2) - connorcompton, Nephthys
Percy Williams(1) - xorxes
Foxcastle(1) - Rdrivera2005
No‑Lynch(1) - CruaaderReynauld

Unvoted: TrPrado (who must cast a valid vote by EoD)

NOBODY is scheduled to be executed.

There is ONE HOUR left!

[Jamiet99uk]

Dammit Prado

[FlaviusAetius]

If ChippeRock is a VT, he has broken the rule on gaming the role PMs. Since the GM said he has not broken any rules, I have to assume he is not a VT. I suppose he could be a town PR, but I seriously doubt that.

If the evidence suggests he is not a VT, then the proper way to deal with it is to wait and see what happens.

I still have no idea what Chippe was doing, his explanations make no sense, people who claim they get what he was doing but won't explain also make no sense (teacon and I think Squigs, but I have to reread the whole thing). People who townread him because "why would scum do something like that?" also make little sense.

Why? Don't you think either town or scum have a motivation to post? Scum tend to try to blend, look towny or look like scum hunting. With a few exceptions (usually from vet players) people who do weird things D1 are mostly town. I am not giving him a free pass, but I have him on my town list. Why this make no sense to you?

Agreed! Anyone who went after Chippie day 1 is just way to suspicious in my mind, there's more than enough content to find other people! Oh and by the way guys I am only on page 40, but I'll do the same thing as last time and go back and forth

[ChippeRock]

Here is why ChippeRock should be lynched today. He started the game by copying the VT role PM, presumably from the game setup post, but also said he could verify the real VT role PM matches it exactly since he is a VT, claiming this proves to the other VTs that he is a VT. First, this is obviously not proof that he is a VT since as scum he could verify his role PM matched the role PM in the game setup exactly, and assume all the other role matched as well. Second, if he really is a VT, copying the role PM from the game setup and saying that his real PM is exactly the same is no different than copying his role PM, which is a clear violation of the rules. Since the GM stated he did not break any rules, he must not be a VT, and very likely mafia.

Also, the fact that ChippeRock has stopped talking about this "VT proof" claim after he was no longer the lead wagon makes it look even more like a scum ploy that did not work out as expected.

Hmm, funny, did I only start talking about being a VT when I was the lead wagon?

Good to see that you're still alive though bozo, though it's odd you would wait until the last hour to finally elaborate on your motives - coincidentally, you stopped lurking when you are one of the lead wagons (the same coincidence you're accusing me of you hypocrite!).

Idiot, if my role PM and the role PM from the game setup were the same, than there would be no rules violation - because they provide the exact same amount of information to others in the game.

Did you ever think that perhaps I stopped talking about it due to some private communication I received?

Why would the GMs tell you to stop talking about it if you did not break any rules?

At any point during your re-reading of my conversation with the others, did it ever occur to you that, if what I was doing was legal, it was borderline legal at best?

[Squigs44]

this is a bad vote imo.

why would you rather he go for flav? how is his argument on chippe flawed? he thinks chippe claimed "vt" for nefarious reasons, and he very much might be right about it. i agree with bozo that it's weird chippe just totally dropped it after the night was over... maybe a special someone told him to stop? just a thought but i certainly don't think bozo's argument is flawed enough to warrant this vote.

He thinks if Chippe were VT he would be modkilled, therefore Chippe cannot possibly be VT. This is just as flawed as Chippe thinking he could prove he was VT. You can't prove you someone is not VT for the same reason you can't prove you are VT.
If I was modkilled for posting my own role and not for posting others, I could mechanically confirm my own role by posting all of the other roles that aren't mine.

okay, but how is having a flawed argument scum indicative?

He's certainly not my biggest scum read, but I scum read him more than the other wagons. I already tried voting Tom and then MF, but those wagons didn't take off, they dissolved. His flawed argument might be NAI, but his play overall is anti-town. The same reasoning for voting MF could be used against Bozo.