Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

[Vecna]

@ Foxcastle: "For what it's worth after the fact*, I would have probably voted for Squigs if I had been present. I was comfortable with a Damian lynch, but Squigs was an actual scumread over an effective null on ND."

So you were comfortable with lynching me, scum read Squig, and null on ND.
Why no mention of Ezio, the person you were actually voting for?

@Ezio "Like,
Foxcastle, Damian, Flum, Vecna, Xorxes...
Where are you all? You can't ALL be scum and trying to avoid attention? Are we just all trying shitty new metas? "

Tonally this feels exactly the same as your opening post. It feels like you're fishing for towncred. At lot of people had said they were calling it for the evening and coming back in the morning. There was no mystery where everyone was.

This might be right on the banana. Hmmm creamy crunchy caramal banana

[Vecna]

Everything weird around Squig is hard to interpret.
1.) Tom was pushing for him hard and wound up dead.
2.) Squig recently posted a bunch of questions for Tom, despite Tom being dead.

It feels almost staged to me. Too many coincidences. But trying to go too far down that road is WIFOM, I guess.

Also I agree with Vecna. Ezio's plan was bad if we were using that as a primary means of lynching people. Its not necessarily a bad thing to use those criteria to influence your decisions.

But, mentioning it in the way that he did, including himself as a target, feels like fishing for town-cred. Also highlighting the idea will tend to subtly shape peoples way of thinking. If Ezio is scum, presumably he feels this way of thinking won't hurt his teammates.

tom=random scumkill, no attraction of attention, safe no trackable watchable copable doctorable kill. Still pretty solid stotlots to get rid of.

[Vecna]

Everything weird around Squig is hard to interpret.
1.) Tom was pushing for him hard and wound up dead.
2.) Squig recently posted a bunch of questions for Tom, despite Tom being dead.

It feels almost staged to me. Too many coincidences. But trying to go too far down that road is WIFOM, I guess.

Also I agree with Vecna. Ezio's plan was bad if we were using that as a primary means of lynching people. Its not necessarily a bad thing to use those criteria to influence your decisions.

But, mentioning it in the way that he did, including himself as a target, feels like fishing for town-cred. Also highlighting the idea will tend to subtly shape peoples way of thinking. If Ezio is scum, presumably he feels this way of thinking won't hurt his teammates.

WTF

I SAID PLAN IS GOOD. trying to get recognizion for statnig the obvious is bad. too bovious. mooo

[Vecna]

Running through EOD, from about page 16.

Flum and Vecna start the ND wagon. If one or both of them is scum, why bring up a new wagon when you already have Bozo (2), Ezio (2), and Damian (2) as viable counterwagons to Squigs (4). At that point, the theory that either Flum or Vecna is scum would need to also include that Squigs is scum, with one of Bozo, Ezio, or Damian also scum, and so Flum or Vecna pushed a new wagon to try to make sure there were as many alternates as possible to save both Squigs and whichever of Bozo, Ezio, and Damian was scum. That seems overly complicated.

Only Squigs and Damian ended up voting ND from that scenario. Bozo was on Squigs and Ezio was on Damian, and those were static votes (Ezio was not around for EOD). Damian's wagon had evaporated by the time he voted, so it wasn't out of self-preservation. Squigs did need to vote ND out of self-preservation.

Actual question for more experienced players: when scum get a wagon like Squigs, how often do their scummates actually come through with a counterwagon to save them? I feel like that discussion comes up a lot on Day 2, but does it ever actually happen? I don't think I've seen it, but they do have a day chat that would facilitate it...

Ezio and Damian were both viable wagons 15 minutes out. Xorxes was the third vote on ND to kinda push them down. I don't see scum in Flum + Vecna + Xorxes, but I admit that those are three that are hard for me to read.

So Squigs, Damian, and Rdrivera are what I see as scum options on ND. But I doubt it's all three of them. From what I've seen, if they can, scum will try to spread themselves out across wagons. If Squigs is scum, did ghug or Bozo bus him, or was that too risky and either Ezio was lurking on Damian, or Balki or I were camping out on Ezio?

see. only need to read like 12 words of this post to know that fox is town. Yep. very c;lear. too many words, sure, but first 12 pretty good

[Vecna]

I knew something seemed wrong about Fox's post.
I'm really not sure "I was comfortable with a damian lynch" is coming from. It doesn't make sense as a post mortem on his voting.

His vote for Ezio came after the wagon on me was already down to 2 people.
He also posted about Squig and ND on page 18 after the ND wagon had started rolling.

I was no longer particularly likely to be lynched when he was making his votes. Feels odd, like he was just looking for something to say about the day

ddue

u talk words like a lizare vomit vomitables

[Vecna]

I knew something seemed wrong about Fox's post.
I'm really not sure "I was comfortable with a damian lynch" is coming from. It doesn't make sense as a post mortem on his voting.

His vote for Ezio came after the wagon on me was already down to 2 people.
He also posted about Squig and ND on page 18 after the ND wagon had started rolling.

I was no longer particularly likely to be lynched when he was making his votes. Feels odd, like he was just looking for something to say about the day

ddue

u talk words like a lizare vomit vomitables

dude*

u talk words, like a lizard vomits...a spray?*|

[Vecna]

what. really ghug? squiggs is town for that?

bozo was pretty town on a reread.

You don't forget you killed someone less than a day after killing them. You might forget someone died if you were more focused on the flip that happened at the same time.

Bozo was impressive as scum last game, and I don't see anything super townie here. Not ready to townread.

Ezio is for sure town pls trust.

You and xorxes are probably scum.

rofl. impressive. sure bud

[Vecna]

You don't forget you killed someone less than a day after killing them.

It's impossible he's faking a townslip? Considering you do that all the time (even as town) why isn't that a possibility for you?

I fake subtle townslips. They need to look like accidents. That one's too brazen to fake.

no u dont. Lizard lyar betrayer

[Vecna]

I think I owe an answer to Bozo and Squigs about my remark about Squigs not being scum saved.

I still don´t think it was, unless Squigs flip scum, which will surprise me as he looks towny to me. Squigs was on the lead from 08 hours to EOD until 15 minutes without any real attempt to change this. Flum voted ND and Vecna also voted ND with 1:30 hour to EOD and both Damian and me called it as a scummy move and this wagon stayed at 2 votes for more than an hour.
Then with 15 minutes to EOD, Fox voted Damian and put him at second with three votes. Then something started to happen. Balki moved from Damian to Ezio putting him at second with 3 votes and Damian back to two. Then Xorxes, Squigs and Damian voted ND to put him on the lead and I voted him last minute. If someone was scum saved here I think it's Damian or Ezio on my opinion. But I think most of the people that jumped ND last moment are town that didn't want to lynch Squigs. I know for sure I jumped on his wagon because I thought it was more likely ND being scum then Squigs.

EXPLAIN

SQUIGS STILL HASNT OBVTOWNED.

[xorxes]

what. really ghug? squiggs is town for that?

bozo was pretty town on a reread.

You don't forget you killed someone less than a day after killing them.

It's impossible he's faking a townslip? Considering you do that all the time (even as town) why isn't that a possibility for you?

I have to agree with ghug here, if you're going to fake a townslip it has to be something subtle, you can make it that blatant.

[Vecna]

Ultimately.

With 34 minutes left to play during day 1. Fox made his last post about wanting to choose Squig over lesser scum reads if it came to it.

But, the Ezio wagon you were sticking with was essentially un-led.
Fox had to leave, Rdr was pushing against the ND wagon.
Feels an awful lot like vote parking to me. You've played enough to know without someone pushing for it, its unlikely a wagon will take off that close to deadline.

If Fox had actually wanted to lynch Squig as a second choice. Consolidating to the leading wagon from an un-led wagon with 34 minutes to go would have been the right choice.

##Vote Fox

[Vecna]

enough dhiaraea

[xorxes]

I fake subtle townslips. They need to look like accidents. That one's too brazen to fake.

If you think he really did not know or forgot Tom was dead, didn't it look like an accident?

It looked so bad it had to be an accident. No scum has so little self-respect that they would do something like that.

[Squigs44]

Why is it likely there was a scum on Squigs if he is town?

From what I have seen, scum tend to avoid clumping together, so I really doubt all three of them are on ND. That's not perfect in this case, because if Squigs was saved, then the scum had to support the ND wagon to do it. But even in that case, I think at least one scum would go somewhere else, and where better than to bus their scummate who they know is likely to remain on the chopping block in coming days?

If it was town-v-town, then scum didn't need to help the ND wagon at all. My general thought on scum is that they don't want to clump up and they want to blend in, they don't want to be implicated in a mislynch but also don't want to be seen totally avoiding the action, and so the second place wagon is a good place for one of them to land.

But I think this is the smallest game I've played, and that could make a difference (I don't see how, but maybe), and also they have a day chat, which means they can coordinate themselves much better if they do decide to bus/clump/whatever.

The four votes on the Squigs wagon were old, and the most recent we know was town, so no one on Squigs (specifically ghug or myself) could have made the kinds of decisions you are talking about, since we had no way of knowing how the vote would end. We certainly would not know we would end up on the second place wagon.

I actually agree with Bozo here (that's a sentence I'm pleasantly surprised to be able to say). Ghugs vote was before anyone else's, so there is no way he voted me based on wagons.
What I especially find concerning about Fox is his mindset in this post. He seems to assume that one of them is scum, and builds from there. He says if ghug/Bozo is scum, their actions make sense, but fails to acknowledge that if they are town, there is a reasonable explanation for them voting the way they did.

[xorxes]

I think I owe an answer to Bozo and Squigs about my remark about Squigs not being scum saved.

I still don´t think it was, unless Squigs flip scum, which will surprise me as he looks towny to me. Squigs was on the lead from 08 hours to EOD until 15 minutes without any real attempt to change this. Flum voted ND and Vecna also voted ND with 1:30 hour to EOD and both Damian and me called it as a scummy move and this wagon stayed at 2 votes for more than an hour.
Then with 15 minutes to EOD, Fox voted Damian and put him at second with three votes. Then something started to happen. Balki moved from Damian to Ezio putting him at second with 3 votes and Damian back to two. Then Xorxes, Squigs and Damian voted ND to put him on the lead and I voted him last minute. If someone was scum saved here I think it's Damian or Ezio on my opinion. But I think most of the people that jumped ND last moment are town that didn't want to lynch Squigs. I know for sure I jumped on his wagon because I thought it was more likely ND being scum then Squigs.

That's accurate, but I just want to say that when I voted for ND I did not know of Balki's two votes. I probably would have stayed with Damian if I had noticed Balki coming back. I knew my vote for ND could easily start an avalanche so I will take some responsibility for that.

[damian]

Minor personal crisis on my end. Sorry folks. I don’t think I’ll have time to deal with this game until very late tonight or tomorrow

[xorxes]

I think I owe an answer to Bozo and Squigs about my remark about Squigs not being scum saved.

I still don´t think it was, unless Squigs flip scum, which will surprise me as he looks towny to me. Squigs was on the lead from 08 hours to EOD until 15 minutes without any real attempt to change this. Flum voted ND and Vecna also voted ND with 1:30 hour to EOD and both Damian and me called it as a scummy move and this wagon stayed at 2 votes for more than an hour.
Then with 15 minutes to EOD, Fox voted Damian and put him at second with three votes. Then something started to happen. Balki moved from Damian to Ezio putting him at second with 3 votes and Damian back to two. Then Xorxes, Squigs and Damian voted ND to put him on the lead and I voted him last minute. If someone was scum saved here I think it's Damian or Ezio on my opinion. But I think most of the people that jumped ND last moment are town that didn't want to lynch Squigs. I know for sure I jumped on his wagon because I thought it was more likely ND being scum then Squigs.

You're misreading the record, Rdrivera. The vote at 15 minutes to go was Balki off of me onto Damian, and then he immediately moved from Damian to Ezio.

Ah, that's right, I misread what rd wrote. Yes, my vote was a crosspost with Balki's two votes.

[xorxes]

I fake subtle townslips. They need to look like accidents. That one's too brazen to fake.

If you think he really did not know or forgot Tom was dead, didn't it look like an accident?

Yes bozo it's a paradox

ghug is right, but this doesn't mean he's town.

[xorxes]

But I'm sticking to my reasoning on d1. Even though ATM I think xorxes is slightly more likely to be scum, if he's town he's worth way more than Damian. If Damian flips, the odds of xorxes being scum skyrockets and it's not worth keeping him around.

I was about to start scumreading you before you said this.

[xorxes]

Plus, just looks at xorxes meta man. This is so completely wrong for him as town, and so completely in line with his scum play it's unreal.
He had a scumread, didn't find any connections to it, and didn't push anyone one onto it.

Look at the game where he was cop and scanned me. He knew one scum and immediately started making connections. He pushed people onto his scumread.
Any of that this game?

Ah fuck I've convinced me self.
##vote xorxes

I swear I had not yet read this when I made my last post.

(I didn't scan you BTW, I scanned Szpoti and you fell into a scanned slot.)