M1021 - Blessings of Lilia - GAME THREAD [hidden]

[Durga]

also how is one of your few solid town reads the guy who's made five posts all game

This is the most sus part tbh. Gives me "brownie points for defending maniac when he inevitably flips" vibes

[TheFlyingBoat]

no

doesn't matter too much cause i'm simply right

Let me try.

If Durga is scum, who do you suspect might be her team-mates?

Why are you refusing to respond to this perfectly reasonable query?

The problem is that there is no way anyone could highlight that strong of a connection so early. There is no way that Bona could answer that question well even if Durga is scum. The point of the post is to take Bona's attention away from her, not pose a legitimate question. It would be scummier if she hadn't already tried to openly disengage from the conversation multiple times, but as is it just reads annoyed.

Celaph is right.

[damo666]

Should we kill aaro?

[TheFlyingBoat]

pretty much everyone. When I wrote that comment I was thinking of Sabi, TFB, and Jamie though.

So you... Want to kill maniac? Why those three? Because you think they are contributing well?

That's not what I said. I'd be sadder to miskill most people more than Maniac. However, I'd definitely rather get scum over miskilling Maniac. So if I think someone is scummy enough and Maniac is towny enough, I'm not going to vote for him.

I think Sabi is being very solve-y right now and I'm guessing will continue to be. And then for TFB and Jamie, my impression is that they don't lose steam late game which is a huge problem for town.

So given you have a list of people you'd be sad to miskill in some sort of order and a clearly ordered scum reads list who do you want to kill today?

[Durga]

Let me try.

If Durga is scum, who do you suspect might be her team-mates?

Why are you refusing to respond to this perfectly reasonable query?

The problem is that there is no way anyone could highlight that strong of a connection so early. There is no way that Bona could answer that question well even if Durga is scum. The point of the post is to take Bona's attention away from her, not pose a legitimate question. It would be scummier if she hadn't already tried to openly disengage from the conversation multiple times, but as is it just reads annoyed.

Celaph is right.

... Which part? Why did you feel the need to point out celaph is right? And what are the implications of celaph being right on this point according to you?

[rdrivera2005]

I am almost a day back (page 16) but the wagons seems the same.

Can someone make a quick summary in case I can't read everything (I will try)?

[DeathLlama8]

how is durga still a wagon lmao
@damo - why did you vote me + why are you voting durga?

[Durga]

how is durga still a wagon lmao
@damo - why did you vote me + why are you voting durga?

Idk if you're buddying me but it's working and I like it sbjsndkdndkdnd

[celaph]

That says nothing about what you think, just what damo thinks.

Yeah I don't think anything about damo.

This is a copout. You knew nothing about me last game and yet had no problem speculating on my lack of night posts. You had obviously spotted a difference in behavior between Damo games. How does that make you feel?

Side note: even without the added thoughts, I do think that it reflects well on Pyxxy for bringing this up. Maybe he's just better at being mafia than me (not hard), but I think it shows a desire to resolve damo to go compare his posts to last game and highlight a difference.

[aarodactyl]

@aaro - skimming your reads post right now and one thing that strikes me is that you use a lot of "this person is scummy because they do [x behavior] as scum", but that doesn't actually work as an argument unless they don't also do it as town. like i distinctly remember durga flexing about not reading the setup and being frustrated at scumreads in past town games as well

also, why did you feel the need to post reads on everyone at this point in the game? there's a lot of responses that kinda just feel like reads for the sake of having reads (maniac, pyxxy, rdr) and i'm wondering why you chose to allocate your time like this instead of focusing on specific strong reads

Fair questions. I'll answer these and then try to get back to work so I can buy myself some time at eod without feeling too guilty about my work.

For your first point, I agree. I think I said somewhere in my long post that I'm working with very few data points and my reads will likely change. Re: Durga, I agree that they'd likely get upset at being scumread as town. Their action here wasn't exactly flaunting not reading the setup. It was flaunting now reading the setup with the implication that they had to be town as a result.

Also fair point on your second one. I usually feel pressured to give reads on everyone when I decide to do a large post, and that's been true for my games in the past as well. I honestly just don't want to be tunneled for not including someone, and a weak opinion can at least start a conversation. I do think it cheapens my other reads though so I might make an effort to not include people that I don't feel strongly about in the future.

[snowy801]

Who wants to take a crack at a brainbombesque day qt skit

Free townie points up for grabs

[DeathLlama8]

Should we kill aaro?

(waited a few minutes to post this) okay i don't want to d1 aaro but it is weird that a few people were pressuring him and then nobody engaged with this at all

[ghug]

GM Note: Please remember to be civil and refrain from personal attacks.

[rdrivera2005]

?? What is irritating you?

Telling Kaks posts aren't worth reading. Calling Snowy for trying to lay low to avoid being N1 kill. The pressure on Bona is the only thing I like.

Do you like Durga's pressure on Bona because it makes her look towny or because you think that Bona needs to be pressured? If it's the former can you elaborate on why? If it's the latter, then I must disagree with the idea that Bona was being significantly pressured. Durga had given him enough space with uncertainty and hedges that Bona would likely be alright.

I think Durga interaction with Bona is a significant pressure, she hedges but it's normal to hedge a lot on D1 m, specially when your reads are based on vibes (and D1 is almost always vibes, even if you try to rationalize it).

[TheFlyingBoat]

The problem is that there is no way anyone could highlight that strong of a connection so early. There is no way that Bona could answer that question well even if Durga is scum. The point of the post is to take Bona's attention away from her, not pose a legitimate question. It would be scummier if she hadn't already tried to openly disengage from the conversation multiple times, but as is it just reads annoyed.

Celaph is right.

... Which part? Why did you feel the need to point out celaph is right? And what are the implications of celaph being right on this point according to you?

That it would be a play you'd make if you were scum. Asking Bona to try and list your scum teammates is a reasonably obvious play call for scum!Durga to employ as an attempt at deflection that would get Bona to get off of you and put him on a search down a trail you'd be fairly confident would be hard to resolve given it was still super early on D1 in a mini that has been relatively slow.

That it would have been worse if not for other contemporaneous posts. It is certainly possible that it was just a frustrated, angry town!Durga telling him to fuck off in a slightly nicer manner and getting him to chase down other trails.

I think the implications are it makes me townread Celaph more and adds some very minor degrees of confidence to my read on you.

[Durga]

@aaro - skimming your reads post right now and one thing that strikes me is that you use a lot of "this person is scummy because they do [x behavior] as scum", but that doesn't actually work as an argument unless they don't also do it as town. like i distinctly remember durga flexing about not reading the setup and being frustrated at scumreads in past town games as well

also, why did you feel the need to post reads on everyone at this point in the game? there's a lot of responses that kinda just feel like reads for the sake of having reads (maniac, pyxxy, rdr) and i'm wondering why you chose to allocate your time like this instead of focusing on specific strong reads

Fair questions. I'll answer these and then try to get back to work so I can buy myself some time at eod without feeling too guilty about my work.

For your first point, I agree. I think I said somewhere in my long post that I'm working with very few data points and my reads will likely change. Re: Durga, I agree that they'd likely get upset at being scumread as town. Their action here wasn't exactly flaunting not reading the setup. It was flaunting now reading the setup with the implication that they had to be town as a result.

Also fair point on your second one. I usually feel pressured to give reads on everyone when I decide to do a large post, and that's been true for my games in the past as well. I honestly just don't want to be tunneled for not including someone, and a weak opinion can at least start a conversation. I do think it cheapens my other reads though so I might make an effort to not include people that I don't feel strongly about in the future.

Scared about accidentally leaving out a scum buddy??

[aarodactyl]

So you... Want to kill maniac? Why those three? Because you think they are contributing well?

That's not what I said. I'd be sadder to miskill most people more than Maniac. However, I'd definitely rather get scum over miskilling Maniac. So if I think someone is scummy enough and Maniac is towny enough, I'm not going to vote for him.

I think Sabi is being very solve-y right now and I'm guessing will continue to be. And then for TFB and Jamie, my impression is that they don't lose steam late game which is a huge problem for town.

So given you have a list of people you'd be sad to miskill in some sort of order and a clearly ordered scum reads list who do you want to kill today?

my order is probably damo > durga > snowy > everyone else in some order.

That's basically the scum list I gave in my reads except for snowy. I haven't played with them but I agree with Jamie that it's annoying for them to sandbag D1. So that makes them more killable in my book.

I also find it really weird that Damo went from saying my post made me town to then suggesting to start a wagon on me.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Your point about change of style is a good one and is the only thing keeping me from putting them as a solid town read and keeping them stuck right at the border between solid town read and a mere town lean, but I genuinely find it hard to believe Sabi could fake playing well this well.

Fair point on it being hard to play well as scum. I've never played with Sabi before and also I've never rolled scum, so I don't really know how to weigh those factors.

I don't necessarily think damo is too far away from his normal scum game. I thought his activity was suspect before I went to bed, but now he's posted a fair bit in the mean time, and I don't think at this point anything is truly alarming.

I'm not sure if I've seen town!damo ever play. So he seems like normal damo, but normal damo to me is scum.

[DL] been shading me pretty actively and is the only one to give kak the time of day, which is somewhat odd. And then you believe the concert excuse and then scum read him for it? I think it'd make more sense if you just treated it as a scummy excuse for inactivity, but that doesn't seem to be where you're coming from.

To be honest, by this point in the list, I was cutting into when I wanted to start work and didn't explain stuff so well. I think I would have scumread him more without the concert excuse, but was just a scum lean without. Tbh I'm too trusting of real life excuses.

what even. I think Jamie addressed part of this already, but where does this scum lean come from lol. Just not including Maniac for pre-game dislike lol?

Yep, here's another example of me rushing. One thing I didn't say is that I have no idea how to read Jamie. I think I've been in two games where he was scum and I town read him in both. Something about his early posts seemed off. Since my post, they seem more like normal Jamie. I don't think it was him adjusting his behavior, but rather the first 24 hours plus the time zones being weird.

this might be even worse than the others in this chain of odd reads. Most of his early posts were pre-scripted according to others in this thread and 99% of his words are just random flavor unrelated to this game. Looking at his three posts that actually had content per the DL summary, I just do not believe you can seriously think he is putting in useful effort. There are other people I would rather kill than kak today, but I can't understand how you would like him so much more than the numerous scum reads you have

Ok to be completely honest, I've skimmed one of his posts and ignored the rest. They seemed long though and writing is hard. I felt weird giving him a different alignment considering I didn't bother to read what he wrote.

on Maniac

Thinking back, I should have put Maniac as a null. All I meant by this is that they seem in line with their town game. However, I'd rather miskill Maniac that someone that usually helps solve the game. Though to be fair, contradiction theory is the best thing to happen to mafia since sliced bread.

Also regarding the flum comment I made. I didn't actually read any of that D1, so I was just poking fun.

Also might as well put this here. The reason I made the big post this morning was that I'm going to be working a lot this afternoon and wanted to get some reads out before EOD. Also I wanted to give people stuff to talk about and I think that worked? Anyways, I need to get back to work. I'll probably look a bit at the thread for the next little while, but eventually I'm just going to close it until like 30minutes-1hour before eod.

So I kinda assumed you didn't respond to everything because you were going back to work, but since you kept posting...why did you not respond to my comments about pyxxy, rdr, or Snowy?

[damo666]

how is durga still a wagon lmao
@damo - why did you vote me + why are you voting durga?

you - so you woud engage more

durga - she might be scum

I have no strong reads really tbh.

[DeathLlama8]

Should we kill aaro?

(waited a few minutes to post this) okay i don't want to d1 aaro but it is weird that a few people were pressuring him and then nobody engaged with this at all

might be a little early but also that damo posted this, didn't vote aaro, watched nobody else respond to it, and then didn't follow up in any way