Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[Vaporwave]

Why do you think people are suspicious of you but not other claims like xorxes and damo? I do not get it personally and I am chalking it up to you all knowing each other better after having played many games... but I'd be interested to know why because I think xorxes is the Scumbaby for logical reasons.

I really don't know, I'm not persuasive, could be a language barrier, could be them knowing each other better

deliverance of a message is only convincing depending on who says it

[foodcoats]

Please explain your reasoning.

The entire point of the smokescreen is to mask the actual role without them having to reveal.

Yes but if my theory is correct YOU KNOW WHO THE JANITOR IS.

Thus anyone who announces their DP target was the person you know to be the Janitor is in your real DP pool, and if only one person declares that target, then BANG, you got them.

This is another reason why smokescreen are not without risk. They can still be informative to scum, based on scum's other information.

To elaborate, assume ZULTAR is the JANITOR.
You are on Zultar's team and you know he was planning to Janitor Vecna.
You observe that the Janitoring failed.
You call for a smokescreen of DP claims.
Everyone responds.
Only DAVE claims that he DPed ZULTAR.

Bingo! Dave is probably the DP.

##VOTE EspressoPatronum

[damo666]

Ah rip, I thought there were only 5 maf roles.

In any case, my hypothetical still applies. There's a possibility that the DP hit the janitor.

This answer is strange. It doesn't address Jamie's concern.

##vote espresso

What? Yes it does. EP thought there were only 5 roles for 5 scum. Therefore the janitor would always be in play.

Of course there are only 5 roles for 5 scum but it is very clear that it is 5 FROM 7. Espresso's answer is dubious to say the least. I'm somewhat concerned you are protecting him.

[EspressoPatronum]

No I do not.

Your point is Poirot's point in ever Hercule Poirot tale. Not sure that now is the time to discuss this... but maybe it is. You make a good point imo.
We look at mechanics when we don't have anything else. And then we get locked in that. What, concretely, do you recommend we do?

I'm still a bit chuffed at drunk!worcej calling me ass, but this is a good point. All the mechanical discussion feels like a bit of a smokescreen, as it were...

I dig the pun. +1

The heart of mafia will always be on the reads and player interactions, but this game is abnormally mechanical because of its setup. The only way to check unverifiable claims is by mechanical means.

The smokescreens are a way to potentially give us information down the line. Maybe scum have DP and/or tracker, but that shouldn't stop us from taking a good line of play in the event of town DP and/or tracker.

[damo666]

That said it does mean that EP didn't really read the setup, despite being Smokelord, Master of Deduction...

That's better. You're back in the good books.

[bozotheclown]

I agree it should be obvious to Jamie what damo is talking about, but I did interpret damo's claim the same way as Jamie. If damo has a power that goes into affect N2, that would be sooner rather than later, as the expression goes.

Both bozo and Jamiet are very meticulous and fastidious readers when they are town. The fact that they both interpreted "later in the game" as "late in the game" in an important claim could be a coincidence, but it is striking.

That is not a misinterpretation, I would say if damo was referring to N2, want he said had the incorrect connotation. Even N1 is later than D1, but if he had a role that could be used N1, I would expect him to say " I have a valuable role", not "I have a role that is valuable later".

[foodcoats]

That said it does mean that EP didn't really read the setup, despite being Smokelord, Master of Deduction...

That's better. You're back in the good books.

No matter how hard you try, I'm not going to DP you, damo.

[bozotheclown]

13/17 reporting:
bozo: dargorygel, bo_sox, worcej, Vapor, Percy
xorxes: Jamie, flash, EspressoPatronum, dargorygel, bo_sox
brainbomb: bozo, flash, bo_sox, damo, dargorygel
Jamie: Chaqa, dargorygel, flash, foodcoats, xorxes
damo: dargorygel, flash, EspressoPatronum, bo_sox, worcej
Foxcastle: Percy, emc, damo, Vapor, Chaqa
Vapor: bo_sox, Chaqa, dargorygel, emc, Jamie
flash: Percy, bo_sox, xorxes, emc, worcej
rdrivera: bozo, foodcoats, flash, worcej, bo_sox
worcej: Vapor, Hosuke, dargorygel, Chaqa, foodcoats
EspressoPatronum: damo, emc, Percy, xorxes, worcej
Chaqa: bozo, bo_sox, dargorygel, Percy, flash/Vapor
Hosuke: flash, bo_sox, Percy, dargorygel, Chaqa
bo_sox:
dargorygel:
foodcoats:
Percy:

bozo: 3
bo_sox: 9
brainbomb: 0
Chaqa: 5
damo: 3
dargorygel: 9
emc: 4
EspressoPatronum : 2
flash: 6.5
foodcoats: 3
Foxcastle: 0
ItsHosuke: 1
Jamie: 2
Percy: 6
rdrivera: 0
Vapor: 3.5
worcej: 5
xorxes: 3

I am going to stop updating this list. I thought it might be useful to get everyone on record, maybe it will help when we start lynching scum.

This is odd we have darg and bo joint top of polls yet nobody is voting bo and I'm the only one on darg

Not to be the jack wagon that pokes holes in all of bozo’s attempts, but the problem with this list and just lynching the top people is that 5 lists are fake and said fake lists could be compiled purposely to try to add more votes to certain stacks.

I am not suggesting using these results to lynch those most widely scum read. Use or ignore this information however you prefer.

[damo666]

I agree it should be obvious to Jamie what damo is talking about, but I did interpret damo's claim the same way as Jamie. If damo has a power that goes into affect N2, that would be sooner rather than later, as the expression goes.

Both bozo and Jamiet are very meticulous and fastidious readers when they are town. The fact that they both interpreted "later in the game" as "late in the game" in an important claim could be a coincidence, but it is striking.

That is not a misinterpretation, I would say if damo was referring to N2, want he said had the incorrect connotation. Even N1 is later than D1, but if he had a role that could be used N1, I would expect him to say " I have a valuable role", not "I have a role that is valuable later".

Is N2 not later than N1?

[Percy Williams]

13/17 reporting:
bozo: dargorygel, bo_sox, worcej, Vapor, Percy
xorxes: Jamie, flash, EspressoPatronum, dargorygel, bo_sox
brainbomb: bozo, flash, bo_sox, damo, dargorygel
Jamie: Chaqa, dargorygel, flash, foodcoats, xorxes
damo: dargorygel, flash, EspressoPatronum, bo_sox, worcej
Foxcastle: Percy, emc, damo, Vapor, Chaqa
Vapor: bo_sox, Chaqa, dargorygel, emc, Jamie
flash: Percy, bo_sox, xorxes, emc, worcej
rdrivera: bozo, foodcoats, flash, worcej, bo_sox
worcej: Vapor, Hosuke, dargorygel, Chaqa, foodcoats
EspressoPatronum: damo, emc, Percy, xorxes, worcej
Chaqa: bozo, bo_sox, dargorygel, Percy, flash/Vapor
Hosuke: flash, bo_sox, Percy, dargorygel, Chaqa
bo_sox:
dargorygel:
foodcoats:
Percy:

bozo: 3
bo_sox: 9
brainbomb: 0
Chaqa: 5
damo: 3
dargorygel: 9
emc: 4
EspressoPatronum : 2
flash: 6.5
foodcoats: 3
Foxcastle: 0
ItsHosuke: 1
Jamie: 2
Percy: 6
rdrivera: 0
Vapor: 3.5
worcej: 5
xorxes: 3

I am going to stop updating this list. I thought it might be useful to get everyone on record, maybe it will help when we start lynching scum.

I think this kind of thing works great late game, or even after we catch at least one scum to get an idea of who the scum might be, but right now it looks like an NK/mislynch guide for the mafia.

[damo666]

OK A readlist of sorts

Bozo - I did not like the massclaim idea but the way he has persevered with it and otherwise general tone => townlean

Bo - I dunno. Null.

brain - townclear

Chaqa - I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on his claim => townlean

darg - inactive, strange start, consistently votes PW. I just sense SCUM

esp - the janitor business worries me - SCUM

Flash - can't really explain why but just feel SCUM

food - started off dodgy but has improved => townlean

Fox - townclear

ItsHo - townclear

Jamie - obviously I've had my doubts but townlean

Percy - I believe his claim (will be evident soon enough) => townlean

Vapor - hmmm I was townreading but not unsure => NULL

worcej - really unsure NULL

Xorxes - I believe his claim => quasi townclear

So scum I think is darg, espresso and flash with 2 from bo, vapor, worcej

[Foxcastle]

I'm willing to look at Espresso, but Worcej's little performance last night left me thinking ##VOTE WORCEJ is right.

[Percy Williams]

I want people to respond to my Espresso case.
I think he's scum and he slipped.

If you don't agree, let me know why.

There are three possibilities:
1) 'Twas a scumslip of scummiest proportions
2) 'Twas a logic list incomplete, because Espresso, while playing very well, is not used to thinking through all of the possibilities, and it happened to be only janitor situations he thought of.
3) depending on where he posted it it's Nai, because after Eod1 there was a general consensus that there was probably no janitor.

[bozotheclown]

Both bozo and Jamiet are very meticulous and fastidious readers when they are town. The fact that they both interpreted "later in the game" as "late in the game" in an important claim could be a coincidence, but it is striking.

That is not a misinterpretation, I would say if damo was referring to N2, want he said had the incorrect connotation. Even N1 is later than D1, but if he had a role that could be used N1, I would expect him to say " I have a valuable role", not "I have a role that is valuable later".

Is N2 not later than N1?

Yes, and N1 is later than D1. I believe you said "later in the game". If on D1, I said I had a power that could be used later in the game, would you assume I meant later than N1?

[damo666]

That is not a misinterpretation, I would say if damo was referring to N2, want he said had the incorrect connotation. Even N1 is later than D1, but if he had a role that could be used N1, I would expect him to say " I have a valuable role", not "I have a role that is valuable later".

Is N2 not later than N1?

Yes, and N1 is later than D1. I believe you said "later in the game". If on D1, I said I had a power that could be used later in the game, would you assume I meant later than N1?

Yes I think I probably would

[worcej]

Things I kinda liked in the overnight:
worcej's opening comment of his drunk tirade. Mechanics vs. motivation. Worcej, do you read Agatha Christie?
Jamie's espresso deduction. Prime Jamie stuff.
But today's wagons are Vaporwave or bozo.
Both of which are swimming in the scumpool.
Vapor's expression of his inner soul reminds me a lot of MY defenses when I have been scum. Although I am unsure of what aTe stands for.
##VOTE VAPORWAVE

No I do not.

Your point is Poirot's point in ever Hercule Poirot tale. Not sure that now is the time to discuss this... but maybe it is. You make a good point imo.
We look at mechanics when we don't have anything else. And then we get locked in that. What, concretely, do you recommend we do?

Well, we have 3 clears. We have a few later game claims that are unverifiable and some other claims that are also unverifiable essentially.

I think we need to look at everyone’s motives in what they are doing. Why would damo float his claim out? Why would xorxes do it too? Why did Chaqa do it? Why did Percy?

Ultimately, I am convinced there is a scum or 2 inside this group of claims because it would be the best way to hide with how many games are boiling down to a lot of focus on gaming the mechanics (when they exist).

[worcej]

I'm willing to look at Espresso, but Worcej's little performance last night left me thinking ##VOTE WORCEJ is right.

It’s not, but okay. We have a few mislynchs to give so I just hope your ability to analyze improved from last game.

[bozotheclown]

Is N2 not later than N1?

Yes, and N1 is later than D1. I believe you said "later in the game". If on D1, I said I had a power that could be used later in the game, would you assume I meant later than N1?

Yes I think I probably would

Well, I assumed you meant later than N2 by using the phrase "later in the game". Do you have any N2 information to report?

[foodcoats]

I think we need to look at everyone’s motives in what they are doing. Why would damo float his claim out? Why would xorxes do it too? Why did Chaqa do it? Why did Percy?

"+1"

I am surprised at the amount of claiming given bozo's massclaim didn't take off and bozo is a lead wagon. I don't know where the wrongness is exactly in the series of events, but it's bizarre.

[worcej]

Your point is Poirot's point in ever Hercule Poirot tale. Not sure that now is the time to discuss this... but maybe it is. You make a good point imo.
We look at mechanics when we don't have anything else. And then we get locked in that. What, concretely, do you recommend we do?

I'm still a bit chuffed at drunk!worcej calling me ass, but this is a good point. All the mechanical discussion feels like a bit of a smokescreen, as it were...

I dig the pun. +1

The heart of mafia will always be on the reads and player interactions, but this game is abnormally mechanical because of its setup. The only way to check unverifiable claims is by mechanical means.

The smokescreens are a way to potentially give us information down the line. Maybe scum have DP and/or tracker, but that shouldn't stop us from taking a good line of play in the event of town DP and/or tracker.

The unverifiable claims are unverifiable because of the mechanics...