Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

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fourofswords
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Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#1 Post by fourofswords » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:27 pm

It took me years of play before I realized that Germany could move F Kiel to Den in spring 01, then order F Den to Swe, messing up the typical 2 builds for Russia(the other being Rumania). Obviously, this will make any Russia hate you as Germany, so it is only advisable when that is your goal. I would like to see a little discussion on this matter. After finally discovering this, I have used it as a way to make Russia grateful for me allowing them into Sweden. It's hard to say whether this works. Even grateful players may take your centers. Please offer some discussion on this, pro and con.

Durga
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#2 Post by Durga » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:33 pm

It took you years to figure that out..? Is this a real post?
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fourofswords
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#3 Post by fourofswords » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:43 pm

It's a bit of an exaggeration. It's called colorful speech. Are you sure you're not a troll?

mhsmith0
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#4 Post by mhsmith0 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:43 pm

FYI good Russian players often explicitly negotiate with Germany over what it will take to be allowed into Sweden.

Keep Galicia open (in case Germany wants early Austrian success)?
Open Moscow to STP (in case Germany is interested in an early anti-English alliance)?
etc

If a German player is overly onerous with demands then better to just accept that you're in a fight with him, although even there an intelligent Russian should be able to negotiate his way into Sweden if England and France both DMZ the English channel in spring 1901 (since an EF is really bad news for Germany most of the time)
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Carl Tuckerson
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#5 Post by Carl Tuckerson » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:45 pm

My advice: your default plan should be to move to Denmark so they have to respect the threat, extract appropriate concessions, then let them into Sweden. Even if you would prefer to ally with England and crush Russia, it's not that much worse if you let Russia have Sweden before taking it from him in 1902, and by letting him have it in 1901, you are deferring your commitment to war with Russia for another turn, giving you more time to size up England and France.
Many times have I seen, and many times have I myself done, the bounce in 1901 based on an erroneous understanding of the strategic situation, only to find a hostile England and a Russian obviously unwilling to help out.
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Durga
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#6 Post by Durga » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:49 pm

I pretty much always let Russia have Sweden in 1901. No one needs an angry fleet in the Baltic.

fourofswords
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#7 Post by fourofswords » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:22 am

Durga! A response that analyzes the game? I thought you only analyzed players! I'm genuinely concerned!!!
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Durga
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#8 Post by Durga » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:14 am

fourofswords wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:22 am
Durga! A response that analyzes the game? I thought you only analyzed players! I'm genuinely concerned!!!
? What? Do I know you?

CLRJames
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#9 Post by CLRJames » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:35 pm

I think there can be benefits to letting Russia have Sweden, in certain situations.

If Russia is having serious trouble in the south and looks poised to lose Sevastopol or not get Rum, you can “save the day” by graciously allowing them a build from Sweden. It’s hard to overstate the sheer good will this kind of thing can buy you. It’s also useful from a balance of power perspective. You want to keep the war in the east going for as long as possible and a rapid collapse of Russia that sees Turkey or Austria get into Moscow before you is no good.

You almost always want to open to Denmark though. Sweden should be a gift, not a given.
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Octavious
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#10 Post by Octavious » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:59 pm

CLRJames wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:35 pm
You almost always want to open to Denmark though. Sweden should be a gift, not a given.
Almost always when a piece of diplomatic wisdom begins "almost always" it is wrong. It doesn't matter in the least whether you open to Denmark or not. What matters is that Russia thinks you are not moving to Sweden because you have agreed to swap it for something, be it an alliance or favourable moves elsewhere or goodwill of whatever. These deals can be agreed almost as easily in the spring as in the fall.

Pretty much every move you make and every move you don't make will benefit and has value to other people. Make sure they know this and are suitably grateful. Getting a good price for what your selling is a fine thing, but if you can sell the same thing to several people so much the better.
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jmo1121109
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Re: Russian players may hate me for bringing this up, but...

#11 Post by jmo1121109 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:52 pm

My advice, a lot of you should be following the School of War thread and listening to the professors.

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