Forgiveness is a matter of eternal life and death

[learnedSloth]

Jesus stresses it in the 18th chapter of Matthew:

23 ¶ Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

This requirement isn't arbitrary, as knowing that only forgiving people will inherit eternal life helps to receive the love of truth, which is needed for salvation (2. Thessalonions 2).

[BrianBaru]

The difference between Islam and Christianity on forgiveness is clear. Christ teaches forgiveness. Mohamed teaches something else.

The example of Mohamed on forgivness Sahih Muslim, Book 17: 4206

There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.

The example of Jesus on forgivness (John 8:1-11)

But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. "Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

[PRINCE WILLIAM]

To forgive someone for his wrongdoings is the easy part. To forgive someone for his trespassing against your own person is the hard thing to do.

[JECE]

Jesus wants us to forgive everybody:

https://thebrickbible.com/onenemies/

https://web.archive.org/web/20221006110 ... 6_37a.html

Except a fig tree, our entire family, homosexuals, etc.:

https://thebrickbible.com/jesuscursesatree/

https://web.archive.org/web/20200225133 ... 12_51.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20200223173 ... 05_17.html

[BrianBaru]

Jesus wants to forgive everyone, and hopes they repent and sin no more.

[Jamiet99uk]

If Christian God is forgiving, why does he punish every generation for Adam's sin?

[BrianBaru]

God should not punish us because of Adam and Eve’s sins, because we were not involved in their sins. That’s why original sin is not a punishment for other people’s sins, but a consequence of their sins. The Catechism says that “original sin is called ‘sin’ only in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘committed’—a state and not an act. Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice” (CCC 404-405).

[PRINCE WILLIAM]

When we are baptised, this first sin and what else sin we may have committed (in case we take the baptism at a later age and not as infants) is forgiven. Alas, as the text of the great fathers of the church put it, even if a man lives for only a day, he will sin. So we need absolution for our personal trespassings and not for the one of our forebearers. The only thing remaining from this sin is that we are mortals.

[BrianBaru]

It is believed that Constantine, who brought Christianity to the Roman Empire, was baptized on his deathbed, so he could die without sin. Interesting bet.

[Jamiet99uk]

When we are baptised, this first sin and what else sin we may have committed (in case we take the baptism at a later age and not as infants) is forgiven. Alas, as the text of the great fathers of the church put it, even if a man lives for only a day, he will sin. So we need absolution for our personal trespassings and not for the one of our forebearers. The only thing remaining from this sin is that we are mortals.

What happens to an infant who dies before baptism?

They die a sinner?

[Octavious]

It is believed that Constantine, who brought Christianity to the Roman Empire, was baptized on his deathbed, so he could die without sin. Interesting bet.

There's a special section of hell reserved for the sort of person who tries to game the system

What happens to an infant who dies before baptism?

They die a sinner?

Possibly. Ultimately faith is built on fundamental assumptions of how God works. If you believe in a loving and forgiving God, then the infant may technically die a sinner but the sins will have no negative impact on its soul.

The Devine focuses on outcomes, not processes, to use Civil Service speak

[PRINCE WILLIAM]

To avoid the dilemma, the Orthodox Church has a short ceremony of baptism that is given to infants in danger of death, and if they survive, they go on with the usual baptism. We call it Αεροβάπτισμα meaning baptism in the air as there is no water in this baptism so it can be done anywhere. I don't know if the Romeocatholic Church and the Church of England had something like this.

[Crazy Anglican]

What happens to an infant who dies before baptism?

They die a sinner?

It isn't really that controversial a question, although it's an important one. Essentially, what octavious said, it is handled in most denomination's catechisms. The general belief, which can only be stated as the rule for most, is that an infant cannot choose to reject God willfully; so infants are saved rather than damned. My authority to state this as representative of all Christians is nonexistent, as all I did was look at some denomination's websites to see what they said about the issue (Lutheran and Roman Catholic, etc.)

[PRINCE WILLIAM]

Ι believe that it is commonplace in most Christian dogmas that, above all rules and doctrines, is God's mercy which works in ways we cannot foresee and always has the purpose of salvation for every soul.
Even in the time of the Old Testament, where God is more severe, there is the part where says: I (God) don't want the death of the sinner until he returns and he's saved (Ezekiel 33,11)

[Jamiet99uk]

It is believed that Constantine, who brought Christianity to the Roman Empire, was baptized on his deathbed, so he could die without sin. Interesting bet.

There's a special section of hell reserved for the sort of person who tries to game the system

What happens to an infant who dies before baptism?

They die a sinner?

Possibly. Ultimately faith is built on fundamental assumptions of how God works. If you believe in a loving and forgiving God, then the infant may technically die a sinner but the sins will have no negative impact on its soul.

The Devine focuses on outcomes, not processes, to use Civil Service speak

Christian practice is obsessed with process, come on.

[Crazy Anglican]

It is believed that Constantine, who brought Christianity to the Roman Empire, was baptized on his deathbed, so he could die without sin. Interesting bet.

There's a special section of hell reserved for the sort of person who tries to game the system

What happens to an infant who dies before baptism?

They die a sinner?

Possibly. Ultimately faith is built on fundamental assumptions of how God works. If you believe in a loving and forgiving God, then the infant may technically die a sinner but the sins will have no negative impact on its soul.

The Devine focuses on outcomes, not processes, to use Civil Service speak

Christian practice is obsessed with process, come on.

To be specific he did say the Divine focuses on outcomes. I read that to mean God (especially with the capital D). Christians focus on process in their daily practice, of course. God as judge, however, can focus on outcomes.

[Crazy Anglican]

To address the idea of process and return a little more to the OP, I find that forgiveness is vital in my daily life as well. The more I forgive, that is truly forgive and let go of something that bothers me, the more relaxed and calm I am and the less problems that I have. Focusing as much as possible on the positive and letting go of negativity is pretty much good advice regardless of the source.

[KaiserStalin]

It is believed that Constantine, who brought Christianity to the Roman Empire, was baptized on his deathbed, so he could die without sin. Interesting bet.

There's a special section of hell reserved for the sort of person who tries to game the system

What happens to an infant who dies before baptism?

They die a sinner?

Possibly. Ultimately faith is built on fundamental assumptions of how God works. If you believe in a loving and forgiving God, then the infant may technically die a sinner but the sins will have no negative impact on its soul.

The Devine focuses on outcomes, not processes, to use Civil Service speak

I am pretty sure that baptism late in life was fairly common when Constantine did it, it wasn't seen as gaming the system even by many of the Christians of the time, nor does such a claim that late baptisms are invalid even make sense unless one holds that the only true way to be a Christian and to have lived a life worthy of going to Heaven is to have been born a Christian and baptized in infancy. Declaring late baptism to be "gaming the system" also is inconsistent with the several modern denominations that hold that baptism must be willingly undertaken by a person old enough to consciously accept or reject God.

[Octavious]

I am pretty sure that baptism late in life was fairly common when Constantine did it, it wasn't seen as gaming the system even by many of the Christians of the time, nor does such a claim that late baptisms are invalid even make sense unless one holds that the only true way to be a Christian and to have lived a life worthy of going to Heaven is to have been born a Christian and baptized in infancy. Declaring late baptism to be "gaming the system" also is inconsistent with the several modern denominations that hold that baptism must be willingly undertaken by a person old enough to consciously accept or reject God.

You appear to be talking a lot about something I didn't actually say, which is a shame because it means you have wasted your time.

Being baptised in your deathbed out of some loopy idea that it means you'll die without sin is an attempt to game the system. If you can't see the blatantly obvious difference between this and someone getting baptised during the time in their adult life that they find faith I am truly astounded.

[KaiserStalin]

My point was that your personal interpretation of what an acceptable baptism is isn't necessarily an interpretation that was commonly held in the time period, I brought up modern examples of late baptism to highlight that different Christian denominations have different ideas of how baptism works and what is an acceptable and valid baptism. When Constantine was baptized, many Roman christians waited to get baptized until later in life, he was far from unique in trying this "loophole". Also, it would seem a bit weird that a canonized saint (at least in the Eastern Orthodox Church) has a "special place in hell".