A rant about Reliability Rating

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AGuy27
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A rant about Reliability Rating

#1 Post by AGuy27 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:22 pm

Hey. This is the first post I've made on the forum. And it's a rant.

The Reliability Rating system is overly harsh and ridiculous. I got banned from creating or joining any new games for 2 days. You know what I did to deserve that?

I WENT TO SLEEP.

I'm not sure if the developers are aware of this, but there are these things people have called lives, and mine isn't going to be spent checking this website 24/7. If you go offline for 1 or 2 days, you will get kicked from a large chunk of your games, get banned for a few days, and completely tank your Reliability Rating. What kind of trash system is this?


And before you say "Oh, missed turns lose their effect on your RR in a year, so you can just wait until 2021, and then you'll be able to join games again!" NO! I'm not going to wait a year so I can play Diplomacy!

And what's worse is, once you can join games again, you still won't be able to because people's reliability requirements are so off-the-charts that you'll never be able to join them until you join other games, but oh wait, you can't join any games because you have to have a higher reliability rating to join games, which you can only get by joining games, or waiting for a year.

There are many reasons people can't be online 24/7. These include:
Having a job.
School.
Going offline for Earth Day.
Getting grounded.
Going camping or on vacation.
Having hobbies.
Having a life.

I'm on summer break, so obviously school or work isn't a problem. The problem is the RR system. Punishing people for not being able to be online 24/7 is absolutely ridiculous, but it can be fixed. Here's how:

1. Reduce the effect. Having my RR go down 5% for a YEAR is ridiculously over-the-top. This can add up very quickly, and I'm not waiting until 2021 just to be able to join a game of Diplomacy, especially knowing it'll just happen again next year.
2. The system used for live games is fine, why not use it for everything?
3. You should only get a temporary ban from games if your RR goes really low, not every single week.

TLDR: The RR system sucks, tone it down a bit, people have lives and can't check the website 24/7.

Claesar
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#2 Post by Claesar » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:34 pm

If you can't be counted upon to enter orders on time, don't play with people who expect you to do so (i.e. games with high RR requirement).

If you're unavailable, ask the mods for a pause. If all else fails, mail the mods to ask for your missed turn(s) to be excused or your temp ban lifted.

We are very happy with the system protecting players with responsibility from those who care less.
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Chaqa
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#3 Post by Chaqa » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:42 pm

Don't join live games or games with short phase lengths if you can't meet them.

Join games with longer phases and you can safely sleep.

This isn't rocket science.
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AGuy27
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#4 Post by AGuy27 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:42 pm
Don't join live games or games with short phase lengths if you can't meet them.

Join games with longer phases and you can safely sleep.

This isn't rocket science.
The problem with this suggestion is almost every game on this website has either a high RR requirement or short phases, which will tank my reliability rating further.

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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#5 Post by RoganJosh » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:05 pm

Maybe you should spend this time submitting orders to those two "Beginners Only" games you are playing, instead of ranting on the forum.

You know that you can submit preliminary orders, right?

Btw, every time you fail to submit orders, you ruin the game for the other six players. I think you should ask yourself, why would anyone want to play with you, when you ruin the games?
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TheFlyingBoat
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#6 Post by TheFlyingBoat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:07 pm

AGuy27 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:42 pm
Don't join live games or games with short phase lengths if you can't meet them.

Join games with longer phases and you can safely sleep.

This isn't rocket science.
The problem with this suggestion is almost every game on this website has either a high RR requirement or short phases, which will tank my reliability rating further.
Then create your own game with lower RR requirements? I don't see the issue personally. You ruin the game for six other people when you don't submit your moves on time and you should be punished for it heavily enough to discourage you from doing so again or to outright prevent you from doing so again if you repeatedly show you can't be trusted.
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cdngooner
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#7 Post by cdngooner » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:43 pm

No one REQUIRES you to check in every day. You CHOOSE to do so when you enter a game with a certain phase length, a certain number of excused missed turns, or a certain Reliability Rating.
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mhsmith0
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#8 Post by mhsmith0 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:54 pm

It’s also normal to have games with something like one excused missed turn (it’ll then extend deadline for some period, such as 24 hours). In the recent 21 game gunboat series, I took advantage of that in a game or two and I don’t think there were any issues. Perhaps looking for games with at least one excused absence would be helpful?

New England Fire Squad
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#9 Post by New England Fire Squad » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 pm

AGuy27 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:42 pm
Don't join live games or games with short phase lengths if you can't meet them.

Join games with longer phases and you can safely sleep.

This isn't rocket science.
The problem with this suggestion is almost every game on this website has either a high RR requirement or short phases, which will tank my reliability rating further.
Every game I create has a reliability rating of zero. It’s not too hard to find them
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AGuy27
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#10 Post by AGuy27 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:47 pm

I think some of these comments are missing the point.
1: Not every game on this website has long phases, excusable missed turns, or a low/non-existent reliability requirement, so the "just play games that let you sleep" argument isn't helpful unless I create a game, which is good advice but it doesn't always work since not every game will fill up.
2: I do try my best to frequently use the website, so the "just be reliable" argument isn't helpful.

AnimalsCS
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#11 Post by AnimalsCS » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:22 pm

AGuy27 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:47 pm
I think some of these comments are missing the point.
No you are missing the point. Signing up for games where you can't submit orders on time is selfish and ruins the experience for six other people. It's your responsibility to make sure you can play (or ask for a pause if absolutely necessary) not everyone else's job to cater to your schedule.
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TheMarquis
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#12 Post by TheMarquis » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:27 pm

Create a game with bots. Finish it quickly. Repeat until your rating is high enough.
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mhsmith0
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#13 Post by mhsmith0 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:33 pm

If there’s a specific type of game that’s not filling for you, try advertising it in the new game forum. I think some people use that more than the auto search stuff to find games anyway.

Chaqa
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#14 Post by Chaqa » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:37 pm

AGuy27 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:47 pm
I think some of these comments are missing the point.
1: Not every game on this website has long phases, excusable missed turns, or a low/non-existent reliability requirement, so the "just play games that let you sleep" argument isn't helpful unless I create a game, which is good advice but it doesn't always work since not every game will fill up.
2: I do try my best to frequently use the website, so the "just be reliable" argument isn't helpful.
Play bot games with 10 day phases then. No one's here to baby you or hold your hand, and no one wants your lazy ass to ruin multiple games for six other people. There's a reason RR was introduced.
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TheFlyingBoat
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#15 Post by TheFlyingBoat » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:08 am

AGuy27 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:47 pm
I think some of these comments are missing the point.
1: Not every game on this website has long phases, excusable missed turns, or a low/non-existent reliability requirement, so the "just play games that let you sleep" argument isn't helpful unless I create a game, which is good advice but it doesn't always work since not every game will fill up.
2: I do try my best to frequently use the website, so the "just be reliable" argument isn't helpful.
1) No, you're missing the point. I get that you think it is hard to find games that meet your needs and when you create games that meet those standards they don't always fill up. The system is built to handle it if you change your standards and behavior to something that is more reasonable and meets the expectations of the community.

If you can't be online 24/7 because of Earth Day, work, getting grounded, going camping, having hobbies, or having a life, that's fine. Guess what? No one here is on here 24/7. It may surprise you, but the rest of the community aren't heartless automatons without a life. You are not the only one with personal obligations. You are not the only one who goes camping or has fun. In games I am currently in people have requested pauses to go camping with their daughter or because they knew they would be on a work trip for a couple days and wouldn't have internet access. In games that have been completed in the past I've heard every reason under the sun for a pause. If you are going to be unable to make a cycle, request a pause and it will be granted. If an emergency happens and you can't send an email to a mod before the end of the turn and you failed to submit moves, explain yourself to the mods and they may manually excuse it. It is important to note that when you do the latter you negatively impact the game for six people.

2) If you have a 29% reliability score, you're either not trying or your trying isn't near good enough. To me it's a sign you don't care about the people you're playing with at all. Don't join games you don't intend to see through until the end. Ask for pauses if you need to delay. Spending two minutes every 24/48/xyz hours to submit orders (aka the bare minimum) isn't a big ask. Spending a few more minutes periodically every day to send out the equivalent of a few text messages isn't hard either. I don't think you understand how easy it is to not get in trouble.
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MajorMitchell
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#16 Post by MajorMitchell » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:30 pm

I seem to recall that the rules for the board game.of diplomacy allowed any player at any time during the game to put his country into Civil Disorder without penalty.
This, in my opinion, extreme fundamentalist view that all players must put in valid orders at all.times is a regimented artifice best suited to bureaucrats.who dislike anything unorthodox.
Warfare isn't like grocery shopping, where there's a place in the supermarket for every product on a shelf & everything is neatly in it's place, it's unpredictable, anarchic and it's those who can stay calm and think clearly when most others are in a muck lathered panic who not only survive, they prosper.
If I want predictable I can take a.lift ride & listen to inoffensive aural beige bland boredom. Yawn.. let me know when we can play outside the sheltered workshop.

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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#17 Post by mhsmith0 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:10 pm

I would say that there are probably other sites out there who will be more accepting of players who do not wish to regularly enter orders on time and wish to play with others who share similar preferences. Does not sound like webdip is a good fit for you, though.

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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#18 Post by AnimalsCS » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 pm

MajorMitchell wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:30 pm
Warfare isn't like grocery shopping
This isn't warfare; this is a board game. Board games involve friends or strangers agreeing to a set of rules and competing in a friendly competition for enjoyment and mental stimulation. So when someone agrees to play a game on this site, they aren't fighting a war, which is often cruel and unfair, but playing a game. And Diplomacy is a wonderful game of strategy. There is an expectation between each player that they will do their best to play strategically. People are allowed to order all their units to hold if they want, but that should be a conscious choice.

You present an argument that expecting players to play every move is bureaucratic, predictable, and sheltered, and go on to make a weird comment about Lyft. I find this argument ridiculous, not only because it sounds like the umpteen arguments that "Millennials are ruining the world", but because Diplomacy is anything but bureaucratic, predictable, or sheltered. This is a wonderful game where we can lie, backstab, negotiate, and emotionally manipulate others.

Please don't derail a thread about the importance of taking responsibility for one's games and making moves each turn into a discussion about people being "sheltered".
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Octavious
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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#19 Post by Octavious » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:55 pm

As much as it's great to see genuine affection for the game, I think it's wrong to suggest diplomacy isn't cruel and unfair. It doesn't share much in common with warfare (an unkind person may point to large stretches of time where not much seems to happen), but cruel unfairness is definitely up there on the attributes list of both of them.

As for the subject, I can't say that I understand how the reliability rating works these days. Ultimately, though, there's always a balance between promoting good play whilst avoiding being overly draconian and chasing away potentially valued members. I can't say for certain we have the balance right, but it's not for lack of trying. Regardless, it is good to see it being challenged. Nothing is worse than people with a grievance leaving silently in a huff and leaving those that remain oblivious to the issue.

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Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

#20 Post by VillageIdiot » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:34 pm

I can't say i understand RR either, most reliable players don't even think about it, but in the mere moments of reading this persons attitude towards the site I can reasonably assess he doesn't have the right consideration to make me feel sympathetic to his plight.

There may not be a steady stream of long deadline games, it's actually a bit of phenomenon at the moment there's not any 2 day plus waiting in queue, but that's not really a good enough excuse to irresponsibly enter games you may or may not be able to keep up with and expect the other players who joined these games under the assumption of a short deadline game to accept to your lifestyle. If you think it's a rare possibility you may miss a turn then join a game with excused allowances or if you expect to be unreliable due to your lifestyle then accept you have to stick to games where other players may not be reliable also. There's certainly been efforts made to keep games as reliable as possible with understanding towards peoples occasional real life distractions.

Poor reliable games is the greatest bane of online diplomacy and the biggest problem every site tries to find creative solutions to avoid. Diplomacy games aren't a short time investment for players so it's EXTREMELY frustrating to get part way into a game only to find out its integrity has been tainted by an apathetic player. It's even more frustrating for those players who are trying to climb in the ratings only to get unfairly knocked down because an unreliable player tipped a game over into somebody else's win, a loss can take potential take multiple games to catch up.

TLDR: Your attitude sucks, play at the level you can commit to, other people also have lives so be considerate to not waste their equally valuable time.
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