You are presenting a false dichotomy here - positive reinforcement or "the beatings will continue until morale improves". The issue is far more nuanced than this.Ogion wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:06 pmnot technically. It is. Generally, negative aversive training doesn't do any good except to inflict trauma. There's a mountain of behavioral research demonstrating tht it largely doesn't work and has all kinds of negative consequences.Fluminator wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 6:38 pmGrowing up my bottom would get wailed on whenever I made a scene but looking back, I wonder if that technically counts as abuse? I turned out okay so maybe it worked (It didn't even really hurt, I just pretended it did so they wouldn't spank as long) But maybe I should be angry about this in hindsight?
Do parents here spank their children?
Actually, the same is true in dog training, and shock collars and prong collars are also pretty much inthe abuse cateogry.
What does work is positive reinforcement. It's how you train dogs. It's how you train lions. It's also how you train humans.
My wife teaches in a NYC school. Kids can curse at her with impunity (some of the things the kids say are truly horrible and disgusting). The idea of "positive reinforcement only" mean that there is no punishment allowed for this behaviour (the principal told her "this is part of their culture so this is OK"). This is nuts. If we let them get away with it now, what happens in a few years when they interact with a cop in the streets...and do the same?
If my wife tries to fail a child because they do no work she pretty much has to put her job on the line to do it. She has learnt pretty quickly that you should pass everyone no matter what. Again, the kids are learning there are no consequences for not making an effort. How does that help the kids when they enroll in post-secondary education or try to get a job?