Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

Find the tournament calendar, sign up for tournaments, track tournament results, and fill out the tournament director questionnaire here.
Message
Author
RoganJosh
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:02 am
Location: Stockholm
Karma: 86
Contact:

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#181 Post by RoganJosh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:24 am

MadMarx wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:14 am
[something about xorxes]
I would rather speculate that the change was because some people were allowed replays, and got into the top 20 that way. This change included people that made the top 20 before replays into the finals. Of course, that's speculation, only bo_knows.

RoganJosh
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:02 am
Location: Stockholm
Karma: 86
Contact:

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#182 Post by RoganJosh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:17 am

MM, did you just cancel your round 2 games?

Scarabus
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:27 pm
Karma: 13

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#183 Post by Scarabus » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:42 am

I think the bracket change was just because 3 people ended on the same score?

mhsmith0
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:35 am
Karma: 138

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#184 Post by mhsmith0 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:56 pm

That's sort of my guess too?

Maybe the expectation was that a huge swath of people would tie at 400, and then yeah having something extra to slice it out is probably ok.

Instead the top 20 included one person at 360 (xorxes i presume) and then they added hte other two people at that score, possibly because it was such a small group at the cutoff line, possibly b/c multiple people got above that point b/c they got to run a v2 set.

Just speculating on my end, but I'm not complaining :P

irilyth
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:44 am
Karma: 1

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#185 Post by irilyth » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:03 pm

Yeah, I think the word "bracket" is confusing, usually you hear that in a tournament where people (or teams) play each other one-on-one, and the winner of each pairing advances to the next round.

I assumed that 22 people made it in because there was a three-way tie for 20th place, and allowing 22 seemed more fair than allowing 19, or only allowing one of the three tied players, or some such thing.

Floodgates
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 2:28 am
Karma: 10

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#186 Post by Floodgates » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:47 am

Any advice on how I convince Austria/Italy to kill Russia?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=250817

RoganJosh
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:02 am
Location: Stockholm
Karma: 86
Contact:

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#187 Post by RoganJosh » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:01 am

Ghostmaker managed to do something like that in this game:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=249307

MadMarx
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:01 am
Karma: 64

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#188 Post by MadMarx » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:12 am

RoganJosh wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:17 am
MM, did you just cancel your round 2 games?
Yes, I withdrew from the tournament.

Mid way through the first round, before the site being down resulted in an extension of the first round by 48 hours, I sent a message asking if the finals could take place over the course of two full weekends, for people with limited free time like myself, which might benefit all finalists. This could involve changing the finals from 10 days to 14 days, or starting it on a Friday night and ending on a Sunday night. Anyway, I never got a response and no change was made, which was fine. I knew going into this that it was just for fun and I don’t have a problem not playing in the finals, especially since it does not appear that someone got left out that otherwise would have made the finals.

Anyway, the first round games ultimately took me at least twice as long as I expected. I do not have a lot of experience with classic gunboat so I play slowly and with my limited time it quickly became clear that my personal schedule and the finals schedule were not a good fit, so I threw in the towel.

As far as the story about the bracket, I find it interesting on two levels. First, my change request was submitted by someone (me) that (ultimately) qualified for the finals based on game play and the request could benefit all finalists, while the change that was actually implemented benefitted people that did not qualify for the finals based on game play at the detriment of all the finalists that did qualify. Of course I’m ignorant about the whole process of running a tournament, and just because one change was made it should not result in all change requests being accepted, and this tourney is just for fun and it honestly isn’t a big deal except for...

The second reason. I can’t help but view “the bracket story” as hilariously absurd! It’s the kind of lie you want to call someone on just to hear the next bit of bs that is sure to come your way, it makes me curious! It’s the kind of story that if an ally in a press game told me something like that, my inner voice would immediately scream, “That fucker is about to stab me!” And it’s just such a Trump thing to do, not just mention a non-existent bracket, but double-down by inventing this excessively elaborate story about how there was initially a bracket that favored 20 finalists, but then the (non-existent) bracket was exhaustively examined and it was finally determined that the benefits of reworking the structure of the (non-existent) bracket outweighed the negative of now having 22 finalists... Not funny? It’s just me?! Seriously, this is the kind of stuff Trump does to distract us from the truth and other “dishonest” stuff he may or may not be doing, so it just struck my funny bone a bit...

Many of us here (but not all, of course) play Diplomacy with press, and a big part of being successful in a press game relies on the ability to come up with a viable story to distract from your true intentions. Regardless of what’s honestly going on here, especially since it’s unlikely we will ever know the truth, a viable story would have gone a long way. Why not simply say, with hindsight, the tie-breaker would not be implemented in the first round, that this tournament is similar to a golf tournament, there’s a large group of players that will not play directly against each other but the results of their game play will result in a smaller group advancing to the finals, the top twenty will advance, including ties, and all others will be cut, something like that? The crazy bracket story makes me wonder what’s honestly going on behind the scenes, but more so, I want to hear more of those types of lies as I’m always in need of a good chuckle! 😁
2

TheGhostmaker
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:13 pm
Karma: 16

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#189 Post by TheGhostmaker » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:47 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:20 am
Due to a slight structural change in the tournament bracket, there will be 22 players moving on to round 2. Final scores from round 1 will be posted tomorrow and invites to begin round 2 will be given out as well.
MadMarx wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:12 am

...I can’t help but view “the bracket story” as hilariously absurd!
I'm sorry to hear you won't be finishing your games.

My best guess is that:
1) "Bracket" was meant to be synonymous with "tournament with multiple rounds".
2) The change to the bracket was to round 1, and is the change in the rules on where the qualification line was draw. Or it was that some players got to replay games. Anyway, with this and a tie for 20th, I can see why a TD might decide on reflection a different rule would be better.

I don't think it's fair to say that bo was lying. I think its much more likely that he's just not describing his full decision process, and we've misinterpreted him when he used the word 'bracket'.

Speaking as a former TD for multiple different formats, please make sure to be generous to volunteer TDs. It's often a thankless task; it's a lot of work to run a tournament; and everyone wants a slightly different set up. The least we can do is trust that the TD is making decisions in good faith, even if they don't feel they have the time to explain every detail to us.
6

Scarabus
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:27 pm
Karma: 13

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#190 Post by Scarabus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:27 pm

My games did not process...

Claesar
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:34 am
Karma: 842

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#191 Post by Claesar » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:36 pm

Scarabus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:27 pm
My games did not process...
If you manage to miss a turn in a 4-day/phase game that pauses at will, the bots will make you wait for 24 hours before they resume their normal behaviour. This is intended.

Scarabus
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:27 pm
Karma: 13

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#192 Post by Scarabus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:48 pm

That's a pain. I set aside some time to play. Now I can't. Hooray.

Claesar
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:34 am
Karma: 842

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#193 Post by Claesar » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:56 pm

Scarabus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:48 pm
That's a pain. I set aside some time to play. Now I can't. Hooray.
Send an email to the mod team (webdipmod@gmail.com) and I'll ask an admin for permission to process your games.. Make sure your orders are correct before you send the email.

Scarabus
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:27 pm
Karma: 13

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#194 Post by Scarabus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:07 pm

Ok, I did that. If I lose in 03 it doesn't count though. ;)

Scarabus
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:27 pm
Karma: 13

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#195 Post by Scarabus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:14 pm

Actually, I am not sure if these will process within an hour. If so it will be ok. I don't want them to process twice.

Claesar
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:34 am
Karma: 842

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#196 Post by Claesar » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:33 pm

Scarabus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:14 pm
Actually, I am not sure if these will process within an hour. If so it will be ok. I don't want them to process twice.
Yes, they will process in 32 minutes.

Scarabus
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:27 pm
Karma: 13

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#197 Post by Scarabus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:43 pm

Ok, I will play them tomorrow now anyway.

MadMarx
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:01 am
Karma: 64

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#198 Post by MadMarx » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:12 pm

TheGhostmaker wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:47 pm
[Speaking as a former TD for multiple different formats, please make sure to be generous to volunteer TDs. It's often a thankless task; it's a lot of work to run a tournament; and everyone wants a slightly different set up. The least we can do is trust that the TD is making decisions in good faith, even if they don't feel they have the time to explain every detail to us.
I think that's a great point, but I don't think we should discourage any feedback whatsoever. It's blatantly obvious that the webDip team tirelessly works their asses off to provide the best Diplomacy experience possible, which includes a focused effort on improving the site. While my exaggerated teasing may be a bit much for some people's taste, I ultimately think I have a valid point that should be considered for future tournaments (again, the "slight" doesn't bother me, but if it happened to someone else that did want to play in the finals I would have to say they got the shaft):

If you are going to make a relatively minor change to the rules to allow multiple people to play in the finals that did not qualify to play in the finals, you should strongly consider making a relatively minor change to the rules to allow a person to play in the finals that did qualify to play in the finals.

And I still think it's funny, and I'd laugh about it *with* Bo if I ever saw him in person... To blame the "bracket" for having to increase the number of finalists?! And Trump jokes are always funny!
2

TheGhostmaker
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:13 pm
Karma: 16

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#199 Post by TheGhostmaker » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:59 pm

@Madmarx

I definitely don't mean to suggest you shouldn't offer feedback or that your suggestion was unreasonable.

I just know I wouldn't like to hear suggestions I'm "com[ing] up with a viable story to distract from your true intentions" that might suggest you think there's some underhand agenda. :)
2

jmo1121109
Developer
Developer
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:20 pm
Karma: 2182
Contact:

Re: Introducing the first ever webDiplomacy Terminator Tournament!

#200 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:39 pm

Oh huh, MadMarx calling members of the moderator team liars, comparing them to various world leaders you dislike, and not emailing concerns to the mod email because trying to work up the member base instead of getting concerns addressed is just so much more fun. What a surprise. I'm sure we'll be hearing about this for months to come.
8

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests