Are Bot Games Gunboat?

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Expand view Topic review: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by dargorygel » Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:52 pm

Johnny Big Horse wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:59 pm
 What I hate about the bots...
I, on the other hand, have nothing but devotion and trust towards our future overlord bots.

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by Johnny Big Horse » Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:35 am

DougJoe wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:26 pm
Johnny Big Horse wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:59 pm
 What I hate about the bots is that sometimes they team up on you. They seem to know who the human is, and they refuse to attack each other, instead, you end up fighting bots on all sides.

The bot mannerisms I noticed are:
1. There is a priority of actions, and saving a home SC is more important than takin another one.
2. Once they decide they want a SC and get bounced, they will keep trying for it, it seems, forever.
3. They have no loyalty. You can help one take a SC, and they will not spare you.

Anyone have any other ones? I lose way too much to bots, and would like to beat them more.
I've seen the bots go pretty hard at each other sometimes. They don't always all gang up on the human (it just feels like it if they do). I've had some working relationships with bots last quite a while.

Any idea what kind of record you've got against the bots?
My guess is that I solo 25 percent. That might be high. I usually get my ass kicked.

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by DougJoe » Mon Aug 21, 2023 1:13 am

LouisYuan wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:38 am
DougJoe wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 7:19 pm
LouisYuan wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:24 pm
 So does the stuff I say to bots have any impact on their actions? And are there "tier lists" of countries against bots? (my very possibly inaccurate gut feeling says top three are 1 France, 2 Germany, and 3 Turkey.)
Her are my numbers after 63 games as each power (441 total games):

Code: Select all

63	Wins	Win %
Turkey	45	71.43%
Italy	35	55.56%
France	28	44.44%
Russia	24	38.10%
England	20	31.75%
Germany	17	26.98%
Austria	12	19.05%
Total	181	41.04%
Woah by winning do you mean surviving or soloing?
Solos. You can find more in depth stats here, as well as links to every single game:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

The "Game Results" and "Stats" sheets are up to date. The others are not.

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by LouisYuan » Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:38 am

DougJoe wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:10 pm
LouisYuan wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:30 pm
 Hi. I see that there's a press in the bot games but no one responds to me. Are bot games gunboat? In addition, as a newbie I am constantly unable to come first in bot games. Is this normal or am I just too weak? Thanks!
It doesn't look like you've played too many bot games yet, like DarthPorg said, give it time.

I took a look at this game of yours as Turkey:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=712311

The opening turn, you played Con-Bul, Ank-Con, Smy-Ank, which is my favorite opening to play against the bots as Turkey. In Autumn 01, I personally would have played Con-AEG, Ank-Con instead of support holding BLA - I tend to give the Russian bot a pretty long leash as Turkey and it's pretty rare Russia attacks early. However, Russia did get *3* builds, which is not exactly common - so you're a little behind in center count, but it's not the end of the world. The general strategic plan from there is to overrun A/I, which you and Russia did.

There's a lot to be said about this game, but...

Fast forward to 1912-ish where your attack on Russia didn't go so well. You might have been okay if you had moved Ank-BLA in A1913, or not missed moves and let
Russia into BLA in S1914. Personally, I might have let it ride a little longer and gone (or tried to go) West instead of attacking Russia. That's the key as T against the bots - the timing and execution of the stab of Russia.

Here's an interesting one I recently finished (https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=709931) I thought for sure F/G were going to squeeze it down, but I managed to grind my way through with some decent defense from bot Russia to stall Germany in the middle game. I didn't actually really truly attack Russia until the last turn of the game when I realized that getting Bud and Rum would be the game.
Thanks so much! I'll learn more by experience.

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by LouisYuan » Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:38 am

DougJoe wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 7:19 pm
LouisYuan wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:24 pm
 So does the stuff I say to bots have any impact on their actions? And are there "tier lists" of countries against bots? (my very possibly inaccurate gut feeling says top three are 1 France, 2 Germany, and 3 Turkey.)
Her are my numbers after 63 games as each power (441 total games):

Code: Select all

63	Wins	Win %
Turkey	45	71.43%
Italy	35	55.56%
France	28	44.44%
Russia	24	38.10%
England	20	31.75%
Germany	17	26.98%
Austria	12	19.05%
Total	181	41.04%
Woah by winning do you mean surviving or soloing?

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by LouisYuan » Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:23 am

I never got the backstabbing right. I often successfully get bot friends through supporting them (I guess I'm kinda a carebear), but then my friend will usually gobble up centers while I struggle against my enemy. Eventually when I stab them it would be too late.

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by DougJoe » Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:26 pm

Johnny Big Horse wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:59 pm
 What I hate about the bots is that sometimes they team up on you. They seem to know who the human is, and they refuse to attack each other, instead, you end up fighting bots on all sides.

The bot mannerisms I noticed are:
1. There is a priority of actions, and saving a home SC is more important than takin another one.
2. Once they decide they want a SC and get bounced, they will keep trying for it, it seems, forever.
3. They have no loyalty. You can help one take a SC, and they will not spare you.

Anyone have any other ones? I lose way too much to bots, and would like to beat them more.
I've seen the bots go pretty hard at each other sometimes. They don't always all gang up on the human (it just feels like it if they do). I've had some working relationships with bots last quite a while.

Any idea what kind of record you've got against the bots?

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by DougJoe » Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:10 pm

LouisYuan wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:30 pm
 Hi. I see that there's a press in the bot games but no one responds to me. Are bot games gunboat? In addition, as a newbie I am constantly unable to come first in bot games. Is this normal or am I just too weak? Thanks!
It doesn't look like you've played too many bot games yet, like DarthPorg said, give it time.

I took a look at this game of yours as Turkey:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=712311

The opening turn, you played Con-Bul, Ank-Con, Smy-Ank, which is my favorite opening to play against the bots as Turkey. In Autumn 01, I personally would have played Con-AEG, Ank-Con instead of support holding BLA - I tend to give the Russian bot a pretty long leash as Turkey and it's pretty rare Russia attacks early. However, Russia did get *3* builds, which is not exactly common - so you're a little behind in center count, but it's not the end of the world. The general strategic plan from there is to overrun A/I, which you and Russia did.

There's a lot to be said about this game, but...

Fast forward to 1912-ish where your attack on Russia didn't go so well. You might have been okay if you had moved Ank-BLA in A1913, or not missed moves and let
Russia into BLA in S1914. Personally, I might have let it ride a little longer and gone (or tried to go) West instead of attacking Russia. That's the key as T against the bots - the timing and execution of the stab of Russia.

Here's an interesting one I recently finished (https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=709931) I thought for sure F/G were going to squeeze it down, but I managed to grind my way through with some decent defense from bot Russia to stall Germany in the middle game. I didn't actually really truly attack Russia until the last turn of the game when I realized that getting Bud and Rum would be the game.

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by Johnny Big Horse » Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:59 pm

What I hate about the bots is that sometimes they team up on you. They seem to know who the human is, and they refuse to attack each other, instead, you end up fighting bots on all sides.

The bot mannerisms I noticed are:
1. There is a priority of actions, and saving a home SC is more important than takin another one.
2. Once they decide they want a SC and get bounced, they will keep trying for it, it seems, forever.
3. They have no loyalty. You can help one take a SC, and they will not spare you.

Anyone have any other ones? I lose way too much to bots, and would like to beat them more.

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by DarthPorg36 » Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:16 pm

I'd also say as a newbie winning against bots is really tricky. I didn't win against bots for probably six months after starting. Enough trial and error, and you'll figure out bot mannerisms and general strategy

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by DougJoe » Sun Aug 20, 2023 7:19 pm

LouisYuan wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:24 pm
 So does the stuff I say to bots have any impact on their actions? And are there "tier lists" of countries against bots? (my very possibly inaccurate gut feeling says top three are 1 France, 2 Germany, and 3 Turkey.)
Her are my numbers after 63 games as each power (441 total games):

Code: Select all

63	Wins	Win %
Turkey	45	71.43%
Italy	35	55.56%
France	28	44.44%
Russia	24	38.10%
England	20	31.75%
Germany	17	26.98%
Austria	12	19.05%
Total	181	41.04%

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by learnedSloth » Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:59 pm

LouisYuan wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:24 pm
 So does the stuff I say to bots have any impact on their actions?
Parsing what you say would be harder to implement than talking, so probably not.
And are there "tier lists" of countries against bots? (my very possibly inaccurate gut feeling says top three are 1 France, 2 Germany, and 3 Turkey.)
AFAIK no. Austria against bots just is notoriously difficult.

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by LouisYuan » Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:24 pm

So does the stuff I say to bots have any impact on their actions? And are there "tier lists" of countries against bots? (my very possibly inaccurate gut feeling says top three are 1 France, 2 Germany, and 3 Turkey.)

Re: Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by learnedSloth » Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:09 pm

Bots just don't talk. And the difficulty of bot games depends largely on the nation you get. The games are automatically ruled drawn when the player is gone, so bot Italy usually attacks Austria.

Are Bot Games Gunboat?

by LouisYuan » Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:30 pm

Hi. I see that there's a press in the bot games but no one responds to me. Are bot games gunboat? In addition, as a newbie I am constantly unable to come first in bot games. Is this normal or am I just too weak? Thanks!

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