Repercussions for quitting

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Expand view Topic review: Repercussions for quitting

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by A_Tin_Can » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:40 pm

vDiplomacy Points, which basically works like GR
This isn't true. They have some of the same inspiration, but the behaviour is very different.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by A_Tin_Can » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:02 pm

It's not a trivial change, but I'm happy to give pointers to anyone wanting to work on it.

Last time we looked at it, it looked like integrating TrueSkill would solve a lot of the problems with GR.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by Condescension » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:22 pm

CommanderByron wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 am
 Not to hate on GR, but maybe site resources would be well spent on developing a site rating system that works with the site more seamlessly??

GR fills a need, but that need only exists because we don’t have a viable rating system here. Now I have no immediate suggestion and I feel it would probably take a lot of trial and error, but the above issue as well as a few other issues could probably benefit from this fix.
The developers are volunteers working on the parts of the site that they think would be interesting or personally rewarding to develop. If you want that system, you should integrate it yourself.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by Enriador » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:23 pm

CommanderByron wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 am
 Not to hate on GR, but maybe site resources would be well spent on developing a site rating system that works with the site more seamlessly??

GR fills a need, but that need only exists because we don’t have a viable rating system here. Now I have no immediate suggestion and I feel it would probably take a lot of trial and error, but the above issue as well as a few other issues could probably benefit from this fix.
I totally agree. vDip has vDiplomacy Points, which basically works like GR. So there is a framework for php already.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by CCR » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:15 pm

@Octavious, from personal experience I say this.

When I joined webdip, not much long ago, I used to take over lots of hopeless positions, in some I fought hard to find a place in a draw, in most I was simply eliminated or survived to a solo.

When I figured out there was a GR and it could be used to set up seedings in tournaments, for example, or purely as a measure of my own skills, I simple stopped doing so.

Though I do can have some fun in such challenges, I figured out I was looking like a player who always loses - while I could see a few big draws I made into, as victories for otherwise hopeless powers, that seeemed not recognised in my ratings, instead pulled it down a lot. This is why my vdip ratings are high, while my webdip ratings are median (there are not much replacement opportunities in our sister site!).

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by Octavious » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:50 pm

PRINCE WILLIAM wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:29 pm
Octavious wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:49 pm
 What I want to know is what lame arse poodle happily takes the GR hit on behalf of the kind of chinless wonder who'd use subbing to cheat their wareratings ladder?
Someone who wants to try a difficult or even desperate position and at the same time sees it as a service to the community helping a game to continue instead of waiting for a substitute.
No, I don't think so. People looking for a challenge / exercise in masochism have plenty of opportunities in taking over from CDs. I doubt even someone with the gall to engage in GR fiddling would publicly advertise the fact by requesting subs in the forum, so it would have to be a personal favour rather than community minded, I would have thought.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by PRINCE WILLIAM » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:29 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:49 pm
 What I want to know is what lame arse poodle happily takes the GR hit on behalf of the kind of chinless wonder who'd use subbing to cheat their way up a ratings ladder?
Someone who wants to try a difficult or even desperate position and at the same time sees it as a service to the community helping a game to continue instead of waiting for a substitute.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by CCR » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:09 am

never late to start a log of CDs. That seems quite easy to implement! Isnt it?

and then it could be incorporated into the ratings, be it with pro-rated strenghts by phases played, expected values, and points won from the game;

note it would also solve the problem of the guy that helps, the guy who ends the game as substitute, who should never have his GR / GRV2 (YR) penalized, specially benefic to the whole community as general stimulous for replacing condemned powers, the simple rule "in the case of a replacement player, he would NOT lower his rating based on that game -- it would remain unchanged.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by ghug » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:58 am

It would be handy to allow mods to choose to ignore CDs rather than making mod-forced ignored and all others not.

As for GR in CDs, having the player who starts the game bet some percentage of the rating being gambled could be a solution. Seems less than justified mathematically, but GR is that already.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by Yoyoyozo » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:05 am

I agree. Some people are force CDd for tournament, or special rules reasons (like the Pacifist Game) some people are also wrongly banned, and ave their games taken over. I think CDs caused only by NMRing should count.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by jmo1121109 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:49 am

I'd disagree from the mod forced perspective. There are many very valid cases where people need to leave games and someone is willing to fully sub in for them, or cases where we simply need to force someone into CD for testing or for training purposes. I think the point of this system would be to punish people who are habitual CD'ers/NMR's who rarely lose GR due to the free takeover system. So allowing mod discretion on not being punished seems like the more fair approach.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by A_Tin_Can » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:36 am

This is definitely worth doing, but currently there's not a lot of history present in a game.

Perhaps we could implement a system whereby any CD (including mod forced) counts as a loss from the perspective of GR? What do people think?

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by Octavious » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:49 pm

What I want to know is what lame arse poodle happily takes the GR hit on behalf of the kind of chinless wonder who'd use subbing to cheat their way up a ratings ladder?

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by Yonni » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:46 pm

CommanderByron wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 am
 Not to hate on GR, but maybe site resources would be well spent on developing a site rating system that works with the site more seamlessly??
I think that has been on the wish list for quite a long time - I remember ATC talking about. My understanding, however, is that it is quite challenging and the developers feel like there are more pressing issues at hand.

Personally, I've played on this site for 7 odd years now and have never felt that this was an issue. I've definitely played in games were people subbed out but never read it as a malicious workaround of GR. More often than not, people get sitters instead of sub.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by CommanderByron » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 am

Not to hate on GR, but maybe site resources would be well spent on developing a site rating system that works with the site more seamlessly??

GR fills a need, but that need only exists because we don’t have a viable rating system here. Now I have no immediate suggestion and I feel it would probably take a lot of trial and error, but the above issue as well as a few other issues could probably benefit from this fix.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by goldfinger0303 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:43 am

Oooh, oh wow, I did not know that.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by brainbomb » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:38 pm

Carrrl !
That kills people

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by LORD_SAURON'S_press_secretary » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:35 pm

The flip side of this is that people who take over losing games and get defeated shouldn't have it count against GR.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by ghug » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:28 pm

Sadly, one of the limitations of GR is that it only operates with knowledge of who controlled the power at the end of a game.

Giving the mods an option to mark a forced CD against a player's record could be feasible, though it would still require a bit of dev work.

Re: Repercussions for quitting

by Durga » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:24 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:17 pm
 Hang on... If you get subbed you don't lose any GR? How does that work? I always assumed if you were replaced it counted as a loss.
Nope, you don't. It counts as nothing if you sub out. You should honestly lose GR if you sub out.

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