The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

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Expand view Topic review: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Vaporwave » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:09 pm

wish for U.N or an environmental organization to force my country to stop throwing shit everywhere, like imposing severe fines.

I'm just so tired of seeing poop, used tampons, dirty underwear on the street, vomit and animal intestines everywhere.

the entire city is a dumpster, people will throw anything and everything. I'm not sure if this relates in any way with climate change, but still, it's infuriating when we have trash cans and public toilets available in most places yet people always choose to be gross on purpose

I think it's all comes down to mentality. If people are trashy, they will never be changed through reasoning, you gotta impose something that will affect them negatively so that they will willingly change.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by flash2015 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:03 am

Stressedlines wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:03 am
 because, even though I care, and make my own changes, and it appears we as a nation are making changes, they are all moot if China and India don't also

We do happen to live on the same planet

Keep up here. The title of the thread was "The Right's denial of Climate Change.." I was simply stating that isn't true at all
But China and India ARE taking steps. China is a leader in renewable energy...and India is making a big push too. Repeating again and again that they are not doing anything doesn't make it true.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Carl Tuckerson » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:05 am

Especially when those changes have trillion-dollar price tags, as recent American plans like the Green New Deal does, and especially when some of the more crucial policies like gas taxes fall disproportionately on poorer Americans who are already squeezed to the brink.

To many working-class Americans, proposals to "fight climate change" look more like proposals to break their backs while the world still goes to hell. And when leftists instinctively look to kick ordinary Americans while they're down and stick their heads in the sand about the Chinese and Indian contributions to the problem, it's no wonder you can't get people to agree on "settled science."

Maybe if the federal government had bothered to invest any amount of time and effort into restoring public trust in its ability to solve complex problems like climate change, people would be more amenable to sacrificing, within the limits of what they can afford, to fight the problem. No one wants to destroy the planet. But it's not unreasonable to distrust powerful strangers telling you that you are personally responsible for the planet's destruction if you don't accept nebulous proposals involving trillions of dollars going to perhaps the least competently run organization on the planet that will seriously threaten your ability to pay the bills.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Stressedlines » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:03 am

because, even though I care, and make my own changes, and it appears we as a nation are making changes, they are all moot if China and India don't also

We do happen to live on the same planet

Keep up here. The title of the thread was "The Right's denial of Climate Change.." I was simply stating that isn't true at all

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by principians » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm

Even If It were true that India and China don't care about this... The consequences won't be faced only by China and India.

Why you care whether someone else Cares about something you should care?

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by flash2015 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:31 pm

Stressedlines wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:08 pm
 I read this and had to chuckle

China and India are both. Building (new) planta that are triple the number of existing us plants now but somehow it's the right fault?

USA has went from 56 to 29 percent in 11 years of how much of our electric is supplied via coal while other nations are up 500 percent buys it's the right fault?

Smh...go do a.little damn research plz
I don't mean to be rude, but what research have you done?

Since 2007 China's use of coal for energy has gone down from 81% to 59% in 2018 with total coal use peaking in 2013...and again China is a leader in renewable energy and they have far, far less carbon emissions per capita.

India is definitely not in as good a position...but they account for three of the five largest solar plants in the world...and they are making a big renewable push:

https://www.originenergy.com.au/blog/li ... world.html

Of course, conservative media aren't all on the same narrative about "blame China/India". A recent cartoon from the Murdoch press in Australia openly mocked attempts to help India with renewable energy...showing poor Indians trying to eat solar panels:

https://twitter.com/MatteoFagotto/statu ... 33/photo/1

Which is just so, so wrong on many levels because small scale solar power is probably one of the best ways of getting people out of poverty (e.g. powering up mobile phones - mobile phones being one of the biggest drivers of economic growth in the developing world, replacing dirty oil/coal lighting with battery-backed led lighting which is also much healthier).

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Stressedlines » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:08 pm

I read this and had to chuckle

China and India are both. Building (new) planta that are triple the number of existing us plants now but somehow it's the right fault?

USA has went from 56 to 29 percent in 11 years of how much of our electric is supplied via coal while other nations are up 500 percent buys it's the right fault?

Smh...go do a.little damn research plz

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Senlac » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:51 am

Stressedlines wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:30 am
 If the right, tomorrow decided climate change was their big horse in the next election, it wont matter a hill of beans if China and India (to start with) wont get on board.

I am Conservative (not a trump guy though) and am FAR greener than 99% of the liberals I run into For them, its a just lip-service, to make all their friends think they are 'cool' My carbon footprint is far far less than most peoples in this country
This last paragraph amused me enormously from personal experience. I have an elder brother (ageing academic “eco-warrior”) who has been highlighting environmental issues in his University engineering course for decades. We recently compared carbon footprint as his household’s was astronomical compared to mine. Poor bloody students have to listen to his BS, when in real life nothing is actually done. Like most Governments it’s all just talk.

I live in Costa Rica where there seems to be a consensus between Govt. & people that the environment is paramount, so on a national level they talk less & do more, which I’ve found refreshing. It won’t make significant difference globally however because as you say there are much bigger nations that have to start participating.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Stressedlines » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:30 am

If the right, tomorrow decided climate change was their big horse in the next election, it wont matter a hill of beans if China and India (to start with) wont get on board.

I am Conservative (not a trump guy though) and am FAR greener than 99% of the liberals I run into For them, its a just lip-service, to make all their friends think they are 'cool' My carbon footprint is far far less than most peoples in this country

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by steiner » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:13 pm

It is difficult for me to talk about global warming from the perspective of science or business. But I got a bachelor's degree in architecture, and I can say that a lot is being done in the field of design of buildings and structures, especially in Europe and in the United States. I'm talking about things like LEED and BREEAM. In some countries, it is no longer possible to build a building without a certificate. And I think that's reasonable almost always: sustainable technologies increase asset value by 7% on average versus conventional buildings.
These trends are economical because they are reasonable. These projects are implemented because they are profitable: https://tranio.com/articles/building-gr ... conomical/

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by orathaic » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:19 am

You know China is fast becoming one of the world's largest producers of solar cells. Creating 'green' jobs, which the US is losing out on... While being blamed for all their coal output (yet they still have a lower per capita carbon footprint than most 'developed' nations.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Orao_22 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:50 am

I know that we're worrying about Trump favoring coal and China and India burning tons of fossil fuel per second, but there are encouraging news as well: for example, even Saudi Arabia started building "green" because of economical reasons !! Granted, it's because they want to give themselves a better image as well, but a good deed for bad reasons is still a good deed.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Randomizer » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:46 pm

This isn't a recent problem having been mention as far back as in the Old Testament, but it has only been recently scientifically understood. It's why fields are supposed to be left unused (fallow) and there should be crop rotation to restore farm lands. Growing the same crop every year in a field wears it out.

That's why farmers for centuries would created new farm lands by slash and burn of a forest to increase the carbon content. The older existing forest would be removed and converted to carbon to enrich the soil.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Octavious » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:43 am

orathaic wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:09 pm
Octavious wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:57 pm
 I was speaking with a soil expert today who was of the opinion that carbon loss from soils accounted for half of our emissions. It's not something I'd come across before, but I've had a brief look for papers on the subject and the contribution, whilst perhaps not half, does indeed seem to be pretty major.
Did you ask them how we go about reversing it? I know agriculture has lead to replacement of trees/jungle with grasses for cattle grazing. But I don't know if this is the main cause of soils changing...
He wasn't talking about deforestation or anything of that nature. It was a very informal chat during a lunchbreak at a meeting regarding an intensive farm installation in the south west of England. He was saying how much of British farmland over the past few decades has lost over half of its carbon content as a result of modern farming methods, which made up a hefty chunk of the nation's entire carbon emissions. To the extent that it was his opinion that without this there would be no climate change crisis. He went on to express his frustration that this aspect of carbon emissions had so little attention paid to it (and I've yet to meet a scientist who was satisfied that his area of specialisation has the respect it deserves :p).

Like I say, all informal stuff, and I confess to being somewhat sceptical. But the initial reading I've done on the subject has been fascinating.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Randomizer » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:23 am

You need a better definition of what type of soil you are talking about because the percent of organic material, carbon based, in it makes a major difference. That alone makes a difference in what the land can be used for grazing or grow crops.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by orathaic » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:09 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:57 pm
 I was speaking with a soil expert today who was of the opinion that carbon loss from soils accounted for half of our emissions. It's not something I'd come across before, but I've had a brief look for papers on the subject and the contribution, whilst perhaps not half, does indeed seem to be pretty major.
Did you ask them how we go about reversing it? I know agriculture has lead to replacement of trees/jungle with grasses for cattle grazing. But I don't know if this is the main cause of soils changing...

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by Octavious » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:57 pm

I was speaking with a soil expert today who was of the opinion that carbon loss from soils accounted for half of our emissions. It's not something I'd come across before, but I've had a brief look for papers on the subject and the contribution, whilst perhaps not half, does indeed seem to be pretty major.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by orathaic » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:36 pm

Principians, if we can generate enough energy cheap enough we can make all the other problems go away...

But yes, having a large dog will significantly increase you carbon footprint.
Eating meat AND driving a large (inefficient) car will increase it doubly.

The US is in an unusual position, contrasting most developed nations, in that they are a major oil producer, and haven't been taxing the shit out of gas/petrol.
(current estimates are Petrol : Pump €1.612 per litre,
Total taxes: 90.971c
Pre-tax price 70.229c
Tax as a percent 54.5%
)

Mostly, not to protect the climate, but to reduce dependence on foreign oil, both for currency outflow and energy security.

As a result tiny, fuel efficient cars are the norm across Europe and Japan. But I don't have figures on the range of fuel efficiencies you see.

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by principians » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:23 pm

Interesting discussion. Few times I've read every single comment of a thread here.
Some comments:
1) I think we can't stress enough the importance of the mind control that big companies and interests can achieve, mainly through mass media (but heil "free speech")
2) Interesting discussion about electrical plants, but maybe it would help to consider that, if you don't include transport, energy sector contibutes less than a third to the emissions. Another third is transport. The other thid is shared by other industries.
3) For instance, do you know what industry contributes the most after energy and transport? Clothing and textile industries.
4)Did you know that an average merican family with 4 members generates more emissions through eating meat than through using 2 Cars?

Re: The Right's Denial of Climate Change Will Destroy the World

by orathaic » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:43 am

Senlac wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:32 am
 <snip>
We are in agreement, but I don’t think you noticed...
Climate change is disastrous for animals & plants living where it occurs (then subsequently for us if we depend on them). Humans might well survive the ordeal better (or at least some of them might).
There was an element of tongue in cheek humour to my post which I think you missed.
[/quote]
Clearly I did.

I think my most important point is, we have found every bit of arable land, and exploited it, thus any serious change will reduce our capacity to produce food. (though this ignores my prediction above about Northern Canada and Russia.)

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