Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

Post a reply

Confirmation code
Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive.
Smilies
:points: :-D :eyeroll: :neutral: :nmr: :razz: :raging: :-) ;) :( :sick: :o :? 8-) :x :shock: :lol: :cry: :evil: :?: :smirk: :!:
View more smilies

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is OFF
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

If you wish to attach one or more files enter the details below.

Expand view Topic review: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Yonni » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:32 am

Is there a place that the entire GR database is posted like before? And, if not, is there a plan to do it?

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Yonni » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:24 pm

Overall isn't calculated as a combination of the other ones, it's calculated independently (but with similar ingredients).

Let's say you beat me in a GB game. My overall ghost rating is quite high but my GB ghost rating is near the bottom. If you beat me in overall, you'll gain a lot of points but far fewer if you beat me in GB. I see no reason why things like that couldn't compound to make a sizable difference.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by chluke » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:42 pm

Seem to me that it would go against the transitive property of mathematics.

But, Yonni, I'm not the math wiz that you are, so if you look at my GR rating numbers and think it still makes sense that the overall rating can have such a large magnitude of disparity vs "peak" when the three sub-components are all within 0-3 total points of peak, then I'll take your word for it.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Yonni » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:04 pm

I see no reason why that wouldn't be possible.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by chluke » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:01 pm

Does it make sense, mathematically, that under the updated ratings, my Press/Live/Gboat rating are equal to/1 pt below/3 pts below my respective peak ratings, yet my overall rating is 27 points below my peak??

I love and thank you all for the automated ratings! Just wondering if this is a odd math points to bug in one of the calculations?

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by kestasjk » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:03 pm

Nicely done guys

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by jmo1121109 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:38 am

Peregrine Falcon wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:17 pm
Doug7878 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:51 pm
On my profile page, under Ghost Rating Overall - It gives my October 2020 current GR of 134, and peak GR of 135, which match the October GR file (link below I hope)
However, it lists my "Position" as 3823.
My October Overall GR Rank is 764.

I haven't finished a game in either October or November.

I'm confused. Sorry if this has been addressed already.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... gr/pubhtml
The reason for the ranking difference is because the monthly GR used to only include players who had completed a game in the past 6 months. The newly integrated rankings include everyone ever on the site.
We started with this, and wanted feedback if people wanted it open, 6 months only, both, etc. But for the moment it's like PF mentioned.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Doug7878 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:35 pm

Ok. Thank you.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Peregrine Falcon » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:17 pm

Doug7878 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:51 pm
On my profile page, under Ghost Rating Overall - It gives my October 2020 current GR of 134, and peak GR of 135, which match the October GR file (link below I hope)
However, it lists my "Position" as 3823.
My October Overall GR Rank is 764.

I haven't finished a game in either October or November.

I'm confused. Sorry if this has been addressed already.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... gr/pubhtml
The reason for the ranking difference is because the monthly GR used to only include players who had completed a game in the past 6 months. The newly integrated rankings include everyone ever on the site.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Doug7878 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:51 pm

On my profile page, under Ghost Rating Overall - It gives my October 2020 current GR of 134, and peak GR of 135, which match the October GR file (link below I hope)
However, it lists my "Position" as 3823.
My October Overall GR Rank is 764.

I haven't finished a game in either October or November.

I'm confused. Sorry if this has been addressed already.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... gr/pubhtml

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Claesar » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:25 pm

I do not. I rarely spend more than 5min on my non-live GB moves anyway..

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Yonni » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:25 pm

43% win rate? Hot damn.

So I guess the only other question would be do gunboaters feel the need to make distinctions between live and non-live

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Mercy » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:28 pm

I care about the distinction between live press and live gunboat games. They are very distinct.

When I look at my own past games:

LIVE PRESS (14 games)
Won: 43%
Drawn: 57%
Lost: 0%

LIVE GUNBOAT (12 games)
Won: 0%
Drawn: 50%
Lost: 50%

Games are harder when you cannot nicely ask your neighbours not to attack you.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Yonni » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:18 pm

Do you think live people care about the distinction between FP and GB? Do gunboaters care about the distinction between live and non-live GB?

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Claesar » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 am

Yonni wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:27 pm
From seeing how people use GR in the forums, I think people care about the following categories:

Overall (everything under the sun)
Classic (FP/Rulebook, classic map, non-live)
Gunboat (classic map no-press)
1v1
Live! I care about the Live GR!

Live is life.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by jmo1121109 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:23 pm

TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:16 pm
Yonni wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:27 pm
Squigs44 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:11 pm
The issue here is that the GR categories have been in existence for decades now. I did not determine what goes in each category, or how they are made (trust me, I would have done things differently if setting up a brand new ranking system). So we can't just change the categories to match the other ones without disrupting what users are used to seeing for a decade now.
I don't think anyone will really complain. The numbers just changed a little bit during this implementation and there wasn't some uproar. I think you'd be fine making tweaks now. (In fact, imo, you'd be fine making it a better rating system in general but that's for another topic).

From seeing how people use GR in the forums, I think people care about the following categories:

Overall (everything under the sun)
Classic (FP/Rulebook, classic map, non-live)
Gunboat (classic map no-press)
1v1
My understanding was 1v1 GR didn't factor into overall GR, am I wrong on that?
If you go to https://www.webdiplomacy.net/ghostRatings.php you can scroll down to the specific category and see exactly what factors into the rating.

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by TheFlyingBoat » Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:16 pm

Yonni wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:27 pm
Squigs44 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:11 pm
The issue here is that the GR categories have been in existence for decades now. I did not determine what goes in each category, or how they are made (trust me, I would have done things differently if setting up a brand new ranking system). So we can't just change the categories to match the other ones without disrupting what users are used to seeing for a decade now.
I don't think anyone will really complain. The numbers just changed a little bit during this implementation and there wasn't some uproar. I think you'd be fine making tweaks now. (In fact, imo, you'd be fine making it a better rating system in general but that's for another topic).

From seeing how people use GR in the forums, I think people care about the following categories:

Overall (everything under the sun)
Classic (FP/Rulebook, classic map, non-live)
Gunboat (classic map no-press)
1v1
My understanding was 1v1 GR didn't factor into overall GR, am I wrong on that?

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Yonni » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:27 pm

Squigs44 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:11 pm
The issue here is that the GR categories have been in existence for decades now. I did not determine what goes in each category, or how they are made (trust me, I would have done things differently if setting up a brand new ranking system). So we can't just change the categories to match the other ones without disrupting what users are used to seeing for a decade now.
I don't think anyone will really complain. The numbers just changed a little bit during this implementation and there wasn't some uproar. I think you'd be fine making tweaks now. (In fact, imo, you'd be fine making it a better rating system in general but that's for another topic).

From seeing how people use GR in the forums, I think people care about the following categories:

Overall (everything under the sun)
Classic (FP/Rulebook, classic map, non-live)
Gunboat (classic map no-press)
1v1

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Squigs44 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:11 pm

Okay I think I understand now.

The issue here is that the GR categories have been in existence for decades now. I did not determine what goes in each category, or how they are made (trust me, I would have done things differently if setting up a brand new ranking system). So we can't just change the categories to match the other ones without disrupting what users are used to seeing for a decade now.

We could potentially change the non GR stats, but I personally think trying to match that would actually cause more confusion by complicating those categories, although this is probably a matter of debate. Those stats are an independent project to GR, so that also complicates things on our end.

People weren't complaining about clarity when GR was a magic number on a spreadsheet that no one understood. Even the people who thought they knew how GR worked didn't realize that the script had a couple hiccups in it and it wasn't quite right.

I do appreciate the feedback though, and there are a couple things we could probably do to clear up confusion. It's a tricky system and we are doing our best to make it more accessible in any way we can

Re: Development Update - Ghost Ratings and Profiles

by Yonni » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:21 pm

Squigs, I think the point that's being made is that unifying the GR and game stat categories would add a lot of clarity. How they're named and explained is obviously tricky and completely up to you.

Does the code allow for mouseover events? That would be a very clean way to explain that FP excludes live games, for instance.

Top