Polar Vortex

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Re: Polar Vortex

by flash2015 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:13 pm

MajorMitchell wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:45 am
..sighs, (thinks, En Avante with a Daffy rant)...
Well done flash2015 (sighs, another player name with bicycle lock code?)
At the time I chose the handle, I didn't realize that it would be my identity until the heat death of the universe.

If I had known that in advance, I probably would have tried to be more creative.

Re: Polar Vortex

by MajorMitchell » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:45 am

..sighs, (thinks, En Avante with a Daffy rant)...
Well done flash2015 (sighs, another player name with bicycle lock code?)
For venting frustrations with public discussion of global warming, there's several truisms in your rant, particularly those about the tribalism & poisonous disinformation & Agenda shaped Information to suit ideological, Political or Commercial purposes.
There is a "wealth and technology" hating rabble and their existence and nonsense is used as weaponised misrepresentation of other more moderate groups who criticise gross consumption and excess that has significant environmental impact, an example, the use of disposable one time use plastics etc, do we mandate the use of bio degradable materials and prohibit non bio degradable materials for packaging in economies and have environmental tariffs on imported non bio degradable packaging?
The Earth's climate system is an astoundingly complex thermo dynamic system so unreasonable expectations about what our scientific research can deliver shouldn't be used to delay actions to mitigate known environmental problems.
Wealth, sciences and technology are the essential tools needed to solve environmental problems, so enforced changes to distribution of wealth are inevitable. We need a bigger pie and we must change the gross inequities in sharing that pie not just amongst ourselves, Homo Sapiens but in our sharing with the ecosystems of our Earth.

Sighs. (thinks, enough for now.)
Au Revoir Mes Amis

Re: Polar Vortex

by flash2015 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:12 pm

<rant>

The problem with the global warming discussion is that it has changed from a science discussion to a tribal one. Whether you believe it is a concern or not largely comes down to the tribe you belong to, which is nuts.

The global warming story is very alluring because it makes things so simple - "if we don't do something the world is going to end". And a lot of the more extreme global warming adherents are essentially telegraphing an ideology that ultimately "wealth is bad". It is wrong to have a big house, it is wrong to enjoy international travel...the ONLY way that we can save the world is if everyone is willing to live poor. This is of course what the other tribe sees and of course is vehemently against it.

If people really want to get everyone on board, they have to drop this "wealth is bad" dogma. I am a big fan of what people like Elon Must does (for all his faults), you get more people to sign on if you can make the new tech sexy too. I feel that "global warming" anyway vastly oversimplifies the environmental and other challenges we face (e.g. a lot of the fossil fuel reservers are in despotic countries, the longer we keep using them the more environmentally damaging using them will becomes - see Alberta tar sands, how the hell do we make recycling actually work?), There are plenty of other reasons to work to get off fossil fuels, focusing only on one of them (which hasn't lived up to predictions so far) feels like it may ultimately be counterproductive to the overall sustainability cause.

</rant>

Re: Polar Vortex

by nesdunk14 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:10 pm

dargorygel wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:56 pm
Michael Crichton wrote an interesting novel on this subject, "State of Fear." Without taking sides on the "is climate change real? is it human-caused? is it a political thing?" issues... he proposes that we really need more data. His fiction is written in a very NON-fiction presentation. For instance, he introduces charts and graphs by having two characters sitting at a coffee table and showing each other graphs, which are shown in the book.

His point is similar to Octy's, if I am reading him correctly. There is a lot of data that has not been understood. BOTH (all?) sides jump to the conclusions we like. And both (all?) sides don't listen.
I'm not sure if you're aware of the controversy surrounding this novel but it is not looked upon kindly by the scientific community. There is no debate about climate change, there are no "sides." Octavious' point is that in the UK the effects of climate change are not immediately obvious to the average citizen. In many other places around the world this is not the case. Crichton's "analysis" is representative of the so-called rationalist perspective which has seen such a rise in popularity in the past decade and is linked intrinsically to the alt-right. Casting doubt upon established scientific fact in the name of skepticism is only doing harm to the future of our planet and the human race.

Re: Polar Vortex

by dargorygel » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:56 pm

Michael Crichton wrote an interesting novel on this subject, "State of Fear." Without taking sides on the "is climate change real? is it human-caused? is it a political thing?" issues... he proposes that we really need more data. His fiction is written in a very NON-fiction presentation. For instance, he introduces charts and graphs by having two characters sitting at a coffee table and showing each other graphs, which are shown in the book.

His point is similar to Octy's, if I am reading him correctly. There is a lot of data that has not been understood. BOTH (all?) sides jump to the conclusions we like. And both (all?) sides don't listen.

Re: Polar Vortex

by Octavious » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:33 pm

Yeah, we don't really get that in the UK. You get hints at it possibly happening, but nothing that stands out against natural fluxuation. Fowler and Wilby wrote a good paper on the subject where they state they don't expect to see anything conclusive until around 2050. You get the occasional drought, but it was ever thus. Indeed, the droughts of the 19th century are believed to have been worse than those in living memory. There's a paper on that I've quoted before... ah yes

Marsh, T, Cole, G, Wilby, R (2007) Major droughts in England and Wales 1800–2006. Weather 62 (4): 87–93.

Even with more concrete evidence like rising sea levels it's difficult for the public to get a good feel for what's happening. The UK tidal range is pretty extreme, well over 10 metres in places, and your maximum high tide depending on the major lunar cycle will dwarf any increase due to climate change. For the next several years tidal flooding will become a smaller and smaller issue before the cycle reverses again.

So yeah, it's hard to notice global warming here. For most of those who do, it's just weather.

Re: Polar Vortex

by Octavious » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:34 am

nesdunk14 wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:17 am
MajorMitchell wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:20 am
When I see player names like nesdunk14 I am inclined to wonder if disengaged Millennials playing with IT devices or those persons with memory retention issues are using player names to record passwords for bank accounts, security alarms etc.
It's my name backwards.
Amateur. I use Octavious but cunningly leave out the u.

Re: Polar Vortex

by Octavious » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:33 am

nesdunk14 wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:08 pm
Octavious wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:44 pm
Where is this impact most obvious? From the perspective of the UK any significant change in rainfall patterns has yet to become apparent, with the only real indication of climate change being an increase in the rate of sea level rise.
The UK has seen a dramatic rise in average temperatures, and a severe increase in heat wave frequency since the industrial revolution, especially over the past few decades. In the last thirty years alone, sea temperatures have risen an average of 0.7 C. The changing of ocean currents will have the largest impact on Northern Europe, and exactly how the Gulf Stream will change is yet to be determined, but any scenario involves dramatic changes in weather patterns.
I'm not particularly interested in a discussion over evidence of climate change in the UK. I worked in the Environment Agency for a decade and have a degree flood risk management that heavily featured future proofing from the impact of climate change and I know full well how limited the current impact of climate change is. The evidence just isn't there. It would have made the job a hell of a lot easier if it was, but what evidence says and what you want it to say are so often very different things.

What I'm curious about is the parts of the world where the impact is already significant and obvious.

Re: Polar Vortex

by nesdunk14 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:17 am

MajorMitchell wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:20 am
When I see player names like nesdunk14 I am inclined to wonder if disengaged Millennials playing with IT devices or those persons with memory retention issues are using player names to record passwords for bank accounts, security alarms etc.
It's my name backwards.

Re: Polar Vortex

by MajorMitchell » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:20 am

Dear Octavious our Oracle, perhaps getting thrashed in Omnipotent Zultar's fantastic Holiday Competition Game may have distracted you, the scientific research supports the comments of nesdunk14.
You also forgot to mention the unusually high rainfall over western Europe circa 1915-18? The squabbling in the Somme, Flanders & other locations overall benefitted from this exceptional biblical deluge. More souls for God & Lucifer to share.
When I see player names like nesdunk14 I am inclined to wonder if disengaged Millennials playing with IT devices or those persons with memory retention issues are using player names to record passwords for bank accounts, security alarms etc.

There's clearly several "type of player name" tribes and, dare I suggest it, Cults here at webdiplomacy.
There's the chaps like us Octavious our Oracle who choose, dare I suggest it, Proper Names considered decorous to Christian Ladies of mature ages. Names of Famous Chaps & Cunning Characters like Odysseus. Names that tell us something of the player like Beloved Dipbro Jamiet99Uk. Amusing names, not risque or innuendo laden, like that of Beloved Dipbro Brainbomb. A name suitable for including in an entertaining anecdote to tell to a Parson and the Church Choir or include in a Hilarious speech to the Wedding Reception audience of Beloved Dipbro & his Fortunate Wife without offending her parents or scaring Fledglings & Elderly Spinsters.

Then there's the rest, and some are in my opinion, and it grieves me to mention them, that are risible, ridiculous, indecipherable or just disappointing.

Re: Polar Vortex

by nesdunk14 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:08 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:44 pm
Where is this impact most obvious? From the perspective of the UK any significant change in rainfall patterns has yet to become apparent, with the only real indication of climate change being an increase in the rate of sea level rise.
The UK has seen a dramatic rise in average temperatures, and a severe increase in heat wave frequency since the industrial revolution, especially over the past few decades. In the last thirty years alone, sea temperatures have risen an average of 0.7 C. The changing of ocean currents will have the largest impact on Northern Europe, and exactly how the Gulf Stream will change is yet to be determined, but any scenario involves dramatic changes in weather patterns.

Re: Polar Vortex

by Octavious » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:44 pm

Where is this impact most obvious? From the perspective of the UK any significant change in rainfall patterns has yet to become apparent, with the only real indication of climate change being an increase in the rate of sea level rise.

Re: Polar Vortex

by brainbomb » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:31 pm

heat wave came in today we got up to 18

Re: Polar Vortex

by PRINCE WILLIAM » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:45 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:37 pm
PRINCE WILLIAM wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:45 pm
-20 in Northern Greece. Not something unheard of but it is not the usual either. We experience a low barometric coming from the far north.
What is the "-20" here? Celsius or the archaic units used in North America?
-20 Celsius, and we had the worst snowstorm of the last decades.

Re: Polar Vortex

by MajorMitchell » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:11 am

Crikey you do it tough in the cold northern latitudes. In the Sunny Antipodean Athenic Adelaide they're enduring a run of ,+33/35°C days with maybe 37°C at peak days & at my battered Beach Shack in Flyblown Gully by the Sea it's about 31°C today.
Emigrate to Beautiful New Zealand or Sunny Australia* & enjoy a better life.
*Australia does have a range of slightly dangerous fauna ranging from deadly spiders, octupi & jellyfish, stonefish etc, reptiles, Drop Bears to large Crocodiles and Sharks.

If an Australian tells you that your party is "As much fun as a barrel of stonefish" it's a polite Antipodean euphemism

Re: Polar Vortex

by brainbomb » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:16 am

flash2015 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:37 pm
PRINCE WILLIAM wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:45 pm
-20 in Northern Greece. Not something unheard of but it is not the usual either. We experience a low barometric coming from the far north.
What is the "-20" here? Celsius or the archaic units used in North America?
Once you get to -30 C its also -30 F so just think really fuckin cold

Re: Polar Vortex

by Matticus13 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:10 pm

Got to -17 here in Kansas during my shift last night. It was damn cold. The refinery was having all sorts of problems.

Re: Polar Vortex

by Octavious » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:47 pm

The UK had a fairly typical cold snap. Nothing particularly exceptional. The climate remains remarkably stable compared to the extremes of the mid 20th century with the amazingly cold and snowy winters of 47 and 63, and scorching summer of 76.

Re: Polar Vortex

by Crazy Anglican » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:35 pm

Still, -4 Fahrenheit is colder than I'd expect for that far south.

Re: Polar Vortex

by flash2015 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:37 pm

PRINCE WILLIAM wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:45 pm
-20 in Northern Greece. Not something unheard of but it is not the usual either. We experience a low barometric coming from the far north.
What is the "-20" here? Celsius or the archaic units used in North America?

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