Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

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Expand view Topic review: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by GingaSouls » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:14 pm

New player here doing some bot games. (Sorry if this post is too old to answer in)

I agree with this. Similar to Uthred, I Played England and was at 9 centers while Austria was at 17 and Itay had the rest. Italy literally supports Austria moving in to take my centers, which would automatically lose Italy the game. I do not know if they ever attacked each other, but on a winning move, they should do something about it.

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by tr1285 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:54 pm

Any plans to retrain the bots with the latest game data? There has to be a lot of bot games where players soloed against them that could help them up their game a notch.

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by A_Tin_Can » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:13 pm

We should train a bot from *only* Bo's games, and pitch it against the current "average webdip player" bot.

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by A_Tin_Can » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:12 pm

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:56 pm
 You suppose I survive long enough in high quality games to actually have the opportunity to stop someone else from soloing.
I never said that.

Anyway, are you any good at Uno?

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by Uhtred II » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:58 pm

TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:24 am
Uhtred II wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:16 pm
 It's also that they actively work towards achieving a solo for another country though. I just played another bot game and almost the whole time Austria just supported Italy to a solo - 18 SC's for Italy and 6 or 7 for Austria. I'm just not used to accounting for that kind of play, guess there were some players early on that were selfless to the extreme or something then?
If you want to get used to it start playing face to face games.
Easier said than done...
So in face to face games, people support others to a solo from the start? What do think they gain from that though? Doesn't make sense to me...

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by TheFlyingBoat » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:24 am

Uhtred II wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:16 pm
 It's also that they actively work towards achieving a solo for another country though. I just played another bot game and almost the whole time Austria just supported Italy to a solo - 18 SC's for Italy and 6 or 7 for Austria. I'm just not used to accounting for that kind of play, guess there were some players early on that were selfless to the extreme or something then?
If you want to get used to it start playing face to face games.

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by Peregrine Falcon » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:24 pm

Is it also trained off PPSC games?

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by Uhtred II » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:16 pm

It's also that they actively work towards achieving a solo for another country though. I just played another bot game and almost the whole time Austria just supported Italy to a solo - 18 SC's for Italy and 6 or 7 for Austria. I'm just not used to accounting for that kind of play, guess there were some players early on that were selfless to the extreme or something then?

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by bo_sox48 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:56 pm

You suppose I survive long enough in high quality games to actually have the opportunity to stop someone else from soloing.

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by A_Tin_Can » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:03 pm

The report is right, though. It would be much better if the bots understood solos. Is the fitness function counting dots? We don't want to simulate Bo, here.

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by bo_sox48 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:43 pm

jasnah wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:42 pm
 It's a known problem that the bots are unable to stop solos. Now the bots were trained on WebDip user data, so I don't know what that tells you about the player base...
This is the right answer. It took a lot of players making a lot of mistakes early in this site's existence to figure out how to stop solos, and it takes newer players now a lot of mistakes to figure out how to stop solos, so there are a lot of games that taught the bots some bad habits.

You might also notice occasional mistakes throughout the game. I've even seen bots "misorder" a couple of times. This too is because it's a mistake a human has made in the past.

It's an obvious drawback to utilizing machine learning when your dataset is imperfect, but it means that our AI is not just a computer player. It is just as unpredictable as a human would be, which in my opinion makes the gameplay feel more genuine than it would be if they simply made the statistically optimal moves every time.

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by TheFlyingBoat » Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:09 pm

jasnah wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:42 pm
 It's a known problem that the bots are unable to stop solos. Now the bots were trained on WebDip user data, so I don't know what that tells you about the player base...
hahaha :(

Re: Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by jasnah » Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:42 pm

It's a known problem that the bots are unable to stop solos. Now the bots were trained on WebDip user data, so I don't know what that tells you about the player base...

Bots don't seem to ever want to stop a solo and get a draw

by Uhtred II » Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:22 pm

Not sure if this is the right place to post this...
But has anyone else noticed the bots will never play to stop a solo to get a draw? It's happened at least a couple times when 1 of them is getting close and I'm trying to counter it, that the other boys will just leave the one that's on it's way to a victory and attack me on every turn.

Im not sure of the ins and outs of programming the boy AI, but surely it'd be an improvement if they could recognise an imminent solo and work towards stopping it?

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