Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD

[ghug]

Why is rdr nice*

Towns: generally being helpful and vibes. I refuse to go off ‘tells’ (still don’t know them, and I’m not taking anyone’s word on tells until I see them myself over several games), or past game patterns (“oh in X game Y did Z, and was role/alignment, and now Y is doing Z, so must be role/alignment”, doesn’t seem to have come up yet, but I’m throwing this out as something I will not do), and I do not have time to do lengthy analysis with AP season coming. But I’ve seen my town reads generally being active and helpful. I think both RBs have chances of being town. Rdr I include because of general helpfulness d1, and not participating d2 is fair given irl circumstances.

Specifics:
bona was active d1 and while many posts feel like wild shooting in every direction, I think their willingness to jump right out and go for the throat is courage only town would dare.
Jamie has been actively sniffing very hard, and I like that. Good vibes, though incorrectly followed up with my senator question (the answer: MY SOURCE IS THAT I MADE IT TF UP, a metal gear meme).
Bozo: also actively sniffing, some good questions and hard grilling.

Sweet, ur on my town reads as well, just not as solidly, similar reasons to bozo. I can’t really elaborate further, specifics are hard to tie down and I’m going with my gut on some (like bozo’s questioning feeling right), but that’s all I can say for now.

Fyi you will always townread me if that is how you intend to decide who to Town. You will also always townread Bona. Probably Bozo too.

Again with the hurtfulness.

[sweetandcool]

Just noticed you wanted explanation for sparta. Mainly for the same reason as Balki and you, too scum read by brain, who is now dead. Now I won’t speak for everyone, but if one were scum and a new player, I think the first instinct would be to quickly shoot people who sus’d me.

My main reason for scum reading Sparta is not because brainbomb scum read him.

Is that your only reason for scum reading him?

[sweetandcool]

Towns: generally being helpful and vibes. I refuse to go off ‘tells’ (still don’t know them, and I’m not taking anyone’s word on tells until I see them myself over several games), or past game patterns (“oh in X game Y did Z, and was role/alignment, and now Y is doing Z, so must be role/alignment”, doesn’t seem to have come up yet, but I’m throwing this out as something I will not do), and I do not have time to do lengthy analysis with AP season coming. But I’ve seen my town reads generally being active and helpful. I think both RBs have chances of being town. Rdr I include because of general helpfulness d1, and not participating d2 is fair given irl circumstances.

Specifics:
bona was active d1 and while many posts feel like wild shooting in every direction, I think their willingness to jump right out and go for the throat is courage only town would dare.
Jamie has been actively sniffing very hard, and I like that. Good vibes, though incorrectly followed up with my senator question (the answer: MY SOURCE IS THAT I MADE IT TF UP, a metal gear meme).
Bozo: also actively sniffing, some good questions and hard grilling.

Sweet, ur on my town reads as well, just not as solidly, similar reasons to bozo. I can’t really elaborate further, specifics are hard to tie down and I’m going with my gut on some (like bozo’s questioning feeling right), but that’s all I can say for now.

Fyi you will always townread me if that is how you intend to decide who to Town. You will also always townread Bona. Probably Bozo too.

Again with the hurtfulness.

Huh?

[kingofthepirates]

Just noticed you wanted explanation for sparta. Mainly for the same reason as Balki and you, too scum read by brain, who is now dead. Now I won’t speak for everyone, but if one were scum and a new player, I think the first instinct would be to quickly shoot people who sus’d me.

My main reason for scum reading Sparta is not because brainbomb scum read him.

Is that your only reason for scum reading him?

Kinda, it’s 100% not the strongest reason to vote for someone, but in all honesty I don’t really see any particular alternatives. Indeed, it was kind of a throw away, just random ramblings in my mind (I basically didn’t filter anything while writing) Also, you said this in your Sparta vote post:

Let's start with brainbomb's strongest scumread, which really makes sense to me:

##VOTE Sparta

In my eyes it seems like you voted Sparta bc of brain’s scum read, or at least took brain’s read into consideration.

[Vecna]

He also had Will in his mafchat spoof but wasn't really scumreading him as far as I could tell.

True about (2) though.

I still think he did ghug. Because really what he did was much more than a RB. It also was protective. I think he protected ghug because he is a popular NK, he also probably thought there was a chance ghug was Mafia so there was a chance he stops the NK that way.

I think brainbomb was playing offense and defense, an elegant RB target.

So you think scum RBd J or held to allow a false claim?

That is my belief. Ultimately I think Jamiet is town. But Will's treatment of him could have been a form of protection. And consequently it is no coincidence that Jamiet is part of the RB claims.

Still, I think scum Jamiet would probably be annoyed by Will's behavior, and I think he essentially ignored him instead. That's why I think he is Town.

I also find it rather implausible jamiet would go along with some gambit where he had to claim a fake roleblock as scum.

Especially because it wasnt needed at all.

So saying its no coincidence that jamiet is part of rb claims.....is sort of implying certain things that seem rather silly

[kingofthepirates]

Fyi you will always townread me if that is how you intend to decide who to Town. You will also always townread Bona. Probably Bozo too.

It is not a perfect method, but it is what I am using right now, since I honestly don’t see anything else I can use.

[damo666]

Alpha read list

Balki - don't like his D1 voting but approve of his D2. Comes across as Balkitown, worcej has a kind of case on him. Marginally townside of null but definitely an outside possibility

Bona - TOWN, early vote on Will and Will voted him. The thing with sweet is bizzare but TvT imo.

bozo - really unsure, definitely a scum possible although the D1 vote on Sparta is a spanner

Bunny - seems townlike and placed vital vote on Will, assume TOWN

ghug - the very late vote on Will is typical ghug which I normally point out as possible bussing to which he always replies "I always do that." The way he claimed the RB seems Bona fide. Assume TOWN

HamB - don't like the D1 vote, not very active, not deffo scum but more likely than others

Jamie - I dunno, keep going back and forth, await more data, not fond of the way the RB claim was made

kotp - assume town purely due to D1 vote, unsure why Bunny and sweet voting him

LoW - do not like lack of vote D1 and low participation but that is probably NAI. Needs to pull socks up.

rdr - assume town, can't see him bussing GF like that

Sparta - comes across as a bit unsure, could be inexperience or scum or both

sweet - screams TOWN to me, bona should move

Vecna - hmmm really unsure

worcej - timing of Will vote suggests town

[damo666]

##VOTE King

For obvious reasons.

Not obvious to me.

[kingofthepirates]

##VOTE Sparta

Just noticed this proc’d the bot. Fixing now

##unvote

[worcej]

OK someone else...can anyone find a crumb by food? Reason to believe he was PR?

@worcej? A little help here?

I didn’t think food was a PR. Idk why damo scummed him and decided to hip fire the kill.

What would you have done if given BEES?

Honestly I'd have held it to shoot the lead wagon near EoD and seen the fallout afterwards.

I'd never just use it blindly on my top scum read.

[Vecna]

I advise my fellow townbees to place their votes on LordofWords.

That's an interesting presentation. I am assuming you've developed a case? I'll look for it later. Let's say I/we do that, destroy Lord, and they flip town, how would that make us view you?

Regarding damo, why're they getting away so easily with the hit on Food?

Just browsing the internets, I learned of a series called The Bee from 2020. Ever heard of it? Your average former special forces bee turned private detective after battling with his own demons and a serious honey addiction.

the beekeeper is dead buddy, you can stop with the fake softs

[damo666]

I didn’t think food was a PR. Idk why damo scummed him and decided to hip fire the kill.

What would you have done if given BEES?

Honestly I'd have held it to shoot the lead wagon near EoD and seen the fallout afterwards.

I'd never just use it blindly on my top scum read.

Fair enough, couldn't be used in final hour though.

[bozotheclown]

Assuming you're town I'd then question the statement "Spartaculous had 3 town votes" because I have no idea foods alignment and I'm very disturbed that you do in this theoretical scenario.

I agree...I strongly think Sparta is scum. This is not a statement I'm disputing. Read my analysis. I'm strongly considering reposting it as the 9 separate posts it was that created it.

Are you sure you do not know foodcoats alignment?

Ah...yes...

If you are town, then I think Sparta is likely town. How did scum not push him harder while also letting the Foreman go?

Maybe it was because Just had given him a 3 DAY PASS?!

Why does your theory that Spartaculous and I are connected as scum mean that one of us being town would make the other more likely to be town? Or are you saying something else?

[sweetandcool]

##VOTE King

For obvious reasons.

Not obvious to me.

I wanted to here more of his thoughts and it felt like pulling teeth. I assume that is also why bunny was voting him

##VOTE Sparta

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE bona

I just want a tie man.

I have no reads.

##VOTE damo

Would also entertain Bunny for the sake of paradox.

Why did you choose Bonatogether and damo to vote for over Spartaculous during this sequence?

Ties, but work I don't like killing new players.

Why are you voting for a new player now then?

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, what would you say is the aspect of the game you're worst at?

I think I am deficient in a number of aspects of the game, but I am trying to improve.

[BunnyGo]

I don't like this.

##VOTE BunnyGo


Maybe BunnyGo is joking; maybe it was meant to be a genuine claim.

Anyways, I don't like this, but I would like to hear from other experienced players how likely it is for BunnyGo to make this kind of joke.

Lame!

How is this lame? Are you doing your best bona impression?

You faked a claim, damo pointed it out, you tried to pass it off as a joke, I grew suspicious, but asked for confirmation, damo and Jamie explained that you were joking, and so I backed off. How is that lame?

How am I supposed to play as a new player? I stay out of meaningful day 1 conversations, and brainbomb jumps all over me. Now, I try to read too much into a joke, and I get called lame. Do you want me inquisitive or not?

It was lame when you voted me and hedged and then tried to draw other people in to sussing me over it. That's something a scum player trying to deflect would do.

Of course I want you to be inquisitive. I also like encouraging new players to come back. So it pains me to vote you, but I'm going to clearly explain why I'm #vote Sparta again.

1) All my first post about it.

2) What would I expect a clever new player (a math teacher! who hangs out on diplomacy forums!) to do as town? I'd expect them to flounder around and try to accuse people. That's the game!

What would I expect that same person to do as scum? I'd expect them to focus on surviving. That's the game!

So...do I take at face value your idea that my joke is scum indicative? Not really.

The reason is your own words: you said you stayed away from day 1 because there was no data. But I've not seen you make use of the data at all. You're just accusing people based on the same BS that you avoided Day 1.

Now...am I wrong about your alignment? COULD BE! So...what's there for you to do?

1) Help your team! Town wins and loses as a team.

2) Solve the game yourself! There's at least pride in getting it right even if you can't convince your teammates you're on their team.

3) Don't let us kill another PR...Sometimes the best thing a VT can do is die.

[Vecna]

Going back over some reasons for voting, I did notice Worcej did the classic thing of coming in to vote the Will wagon at a point where the momentum had just started swinging in that direction, and then after the fact making more statements that are easily interpreted as trying to make sure to get some credit for the vote

100% want Will over Bona and Damo here.

I can 100% see scum bus exactly in this manner

[BunnyGo]

Top 4 town reads…go!

Top scum read…go!

##vote kingof

Silly vote

He asked for questions...he said he was here...where he go?

[BunnyGo]

@sweet assuming Jamie is town can you give me a viable triple that does not include HamB?

Sparta, Vecna, and maybe Pirate.

Pirate? See, it's a struggle to exclude HamB

Bozo