I started the game trying to work much more closely with Turkey than I normally do in a gunboat, then guessed wrong with Rumania and got bounced in Sweden and was pretty much done. I thought it was crazy that you kept going after Italy so damn hard after it was clear Turkey was the real threat to our survival (like disbanding VIe? WTF?). After that, I was just positioning myself to be part of the stalemate line, but they managed to get knocked out instead. Turkey decided to not go for the solo. I maintain that if he was going a little harder for the solo it would have been within his grasp, like an early support move into Tyrolia, but he wanted the draw, so I got eliminated, GG all.

Not much to say. Beginning was wacky. England opened against me but then reneged. I was really hoping G would work with me and he kind of did. England folded quickly despite russia's help in keeping him alive. By this time turkey was massive and i was lucky that germany recognized this and played for the three way draw with me. It was successful. Germany was unprediictable in taking Burgundy a bunch of times. I still couldn't attack him and I am glad he never made a play for my centres.

Good game all. I was impressed with the level of play from a 5 point buy in.

Yeah, England's move to Finland was also pretty decicive IMO, it meant that I had to bounce STP, lost Rumania after I had regained it, and he lost Denmark. I thought he was probably the weakest player of the bunch.

Well, some guys, at least. It was winner take all, Germany, and France was your only possible coalition partner. What the hell were you doing taking pokes at Burgundy in 1906, when Turkey was already through the Balkans and Austria, and into Italy and Russia? But that's a minor grievance. Another minor grievance was France leaving an army in England, but keeping my fleet (Austria) out of Spain at the tail end of the game. When Turkey's going to win, you stuff the Med with fleets if you're going to try and stop it. Also, Turkey, don't you think you settled for the draw awfully easily?

But all of these are minor complaints. My major complaint is with Italy. Jebus, dude, if you're going to try and take out Austria, at least do it competently. Or, alternatively, recognize when you're not going to succeed, cut bait, and try and help contain the growing monster in the southeast. If Russia was working Austria like a speedbag, I can understand Italy continuing to try and hit Austria, even as he was losing SCs because he was ineffective. But if Turkey's getting the benefit of the Austrian SCs and has knocked Russia back to Moscow, just where in the hell do you think the Turk is going to turn next after Austria? You're not even going to be an entree for Turkey in those circumstances, merely an appetizer. Worst Italy ever.

I will respond to your complaints against me Bob.

I i blocked you from spain because it would be harder to get it back while holding a stalemate. I had enough fleets to handle turkey on my own. And even if tunis was lost we still had st. petes. and the difference between an army and a fleet in north africa is negligible.

Russia- I kept going after Italy because he kept going after me. At no point did he disengage, or even just order holds in his advance position. The dumbass kept on going after Trieste long after I put an amry in Apulia. What do you do in such circumstances?

Lando, I don't beef with that. But your fleets were up around England, where incidentally, you also had an army that could do nothing about the ultimate ending and thus made spectacular disband material.

I disband the army in Apulia in 1909. Up till then I didn't see a claer point for disengaging, but that move let Turkey sweep you easily.

I have the same complaint as you Bob, players were being a little fast and loose about stalemate lines. But Turkey was also indicating his disinterest in soloing from pretty early by not building as many fleets as s/he would ahve needed.

yeah i understand your point. I regret not building a fleet brest where i built an amry paris in whatever the last build phase was. it would have just as effectively block you from spain. but i could tell germany had figured out the stalemate idea so i could afford to leave the army hanging out in england.

gramilaj, when were you in Apulia? Or near it, for that matter?

And that's fine, Lando. As I said, it was a minor beef at most. But I'm deeply into the spirit of Festivus.

No, if I were you...disband Apulia rather than Vienna. I thought that was crazy, and it's not like you were indicating that you were letting up either.

I wasn't, by that point. Vienna was dead pretty much no matter what by then, though. For that matter, I was dead pretty much no matter what by then.

Heh, so if by that point you're not letting up...why should he be?

Barring the burgundy problem, i thought i played really well. (this is me being narcissistic)

At that point, he probably shouldn't have. The time to let up was around 1903, when Turkey knocked you out of the Black Sea region. Hell, I would even get letting up for a year to get me out of position and containing Turkey in the south Balkans, and then going for the stab.

And yes, Favio, you played a pretty decent game of Germany, again, barring the Burgundy issue.

@Bob Genghiskhan: Get the fuck out you fuckin prick, I moved to disengage the moment it was clear Turkey was a threat to solo, specifically 1905. I built a fleet in Venice and planned to challenge Turkey in the eastern med but you essentially gave up by disbanding Vienna instead of Apulia. Up until then it was just a friendly game, hey I attacked you, you fought back hard, I made one huge mistake in Spring 1902 exposing Apulia (worried about France's fleet build in Mars, fuck me), but then you chose to hold a grudge - when you disbanded Vienna you gave the region to Turkey and sealed both our fate. You fool! Why wouldn't you assume I'd see that we needed to contain Turkey? I built a fucking fleet that turn, if I had still been gunning for you I ABSOLUTELY would have built an army. Please respond.

But yes, wow, pretty unbelievably hard-fought for a 5pt gunboat live game. It seems rare that some douche doesn't drop out the moment it's clear they're playing defense the rest of the game, let alone every player knowing their shit and playing honorably.

Yeah, I don't see the issue with Italy's play after 1904. That was a pretty bad bungling of an attack on Austria, but he recovered at the right time (8 SC Turkey, right before Turkey took off in growth). Hopping on the "should have disbanded Apulia" bandwagon here.

I don't normally comment on others games but have to go with Apuila as a bad disband.
3 Austrian armies plus 3 for Russia in south would have been enough to contain his growth.He also only had 1 fleet in Med against 2 Italain,1 Austrian and France coming hard .
Also from reading posts here why the hell would France let you live in Spain.He had enough of his own fleets without having to deal with a wildcard.
Having played Bob before he's from the school of thought of screw with me and I'll screw with you even if it means throwing a game.

If you're going to hop on the "should have disbanded Apulia bandwagon, shouldn't you also hop on the "should not have disbanded Trieste bandwagon"? I mean, Italy made a supported attack into my home territory in autumn 04, then disbanded the territory serving as a stopper on further Turkish advance. How does this not read as a desire to continue attacking me?

As to France, it was a marginal case. He did have enough fleets to contain Turkey, but they were up by Britain, not in the Med as needed. But Turkey was not going to be able to round the Straights.

Hmm. I think the Apulia/Vienna bit was marginally worse, considering there was still time to stop Turkey at that point, but yes, disbanding Trieste wasn't a good move, either.

Though I'll ultimately subscribe to the notion (I believe Bob said it earlier) that both of you would likely have been KOed before the draw regardless by the time Apulia was disbanded.

In 05 when he disbanded in Trieste you had two armies in the boot and a fleet in Tryean Sea.He was probally trying to save his homeland while you set up Austria west and hunger down till the cavalry arrived.

Awww... nobody is arguing about germany....

Had Turkey been playing hard for a solo, it would have been stupid to knock me off, and I think supporting yourself into Warsaw was unwise, because it still wasn't clear if France could have kept him out of Wes Med, etc. But, I guess it was really early on when Turkey wasn't making any moves for a totally free Tyr that I started thinking that he was playing for a 3 way.

And I totally agree with podium, I got the strong sense that Bob is a vengeful dip player. (not that its a bad thing).

Depends. On a 0-100 scale, wherein a perfectly meek Diplomacy player is a 0, and a psychotic possessed by the idea of revenge at all costs is a 100, I'm probably in the 60s or 70s by and large. If I get screwed with style, I'm generally less vengeful than if I think an idiot is trying to go after me.

Hey Bob start a new post and ask players to rate themselfs on vengfulness of themselfs.And others who have played them can refute or give there own vengeful ranking of players.

Heck no do I want my information out there, but I would like to see other players scores ;-)

podium-

go for it. And if you do, I'll put my own self-rating up there and see if people agree or not.

@Bob et al: I disbanded Trieste because I thought that by THAT point Austria would realize the situation and not focus on my home centers, raping my women, etc. and focus on defending his homeland. I absolutely empathize with the attitude of "fuck with me and I'll follow you to the depths of hell", especially if it becomes part of your reputation and acts as a deterrent, but sacrificing home centers out of vengeance is unrealistic and frustrating. No government would ever do that. Diplomacy is elegant and gunboat has a special elegance in that it's all about tactics, position. The time limitation and lack of diplomacy can throw people for a loop, but in the best case it's a slow, even game... less rash decisions, more measured, less ego, and realistically a higher value placed on securing your home centers and regional balance than any far-off crusade or imperial ambitions. Gunboat's almost more pure in that way, as long as every leader is rational and keeps the best interests of his citizens in mind...

England here:

That was my first and probably last gunboat. I've played live games with messaging that went faster than that one. Seriously, click ready people (Italy and Turkey constantly
had moves saved with 4min left but then the rest of us had to wait till the timer ticked down).

I definitely made some poor moves. I tried to open defensively vs. France (Channel Bounce) then saw they weren't making a play for me at least initially and moved to get some SC.

My big flaw, was that I overextended myself leaving my rear open. My move to Finland...I honestly can't remember what I was thinking (or not) at that moment.

Overall, I was a bit disappointed Germany was so reluctant to attack France. With France growing (especially once he got Liverpol) his Eastern flank was really exposed, but Germany didn't capitalize on it.

Good game and congrats to the 3 survivors!

Damn, I have people complaining about me moving to burgundy and not moving to burgundy.... which is it people...lol

@tj218 I think the killer over-extension was S1903 when you moved to North rather than English Channel. Normally I don't recommend that the English leave the North Sea, but I think you could have moved to Hel without the backfill, or convoyed into German territory.