No I think that Romans are not Italian, but rather Italians are Romans gone wrong.

And I think that the state of Judea called itself Israeli long before the current day Israel, because they were descendants of Israel himself. Therefore as a Jew, Jesus would have referred to himself as Israeli

Ok, that's just ridiculous - just because a nation shares a certain geography with a past entity does not equate the two. Are the Mongols still running China? Persians in Spain? The current Germans aren't exactly under the Kaiser, and you sure as hell can't find a lot of native american nations that have any similarities to the US....

I'm sure there is some connection of modern day Italians to Romans by ancestry, but it is downright foolish to assume that Italians are the Romans of today.

There were Sicilians, Neapolitions, Milanese, etc etc. So no, Italians are not Romans. But some may have ancestors that were.

That isn't what I said. You can refer to ancient Judea's as Israeli, because the term already existed for them (not in English, but other equivalents).

This is because Jews were children of a man named Israel and called themselves Israelites, Israeli, Children of Israel, etc.

Currently Israeli means from the modern nation of Israel, but to say Jesus was Israeli is a valid statement because the Jewish nation (religious) refers to themselves as the nation of Israel.

@Psyke, you are right, I agree with that statement.

*ancient Judeans

Psyke, and all, the question from the other thread is the title of this thread. Are Romans Italian. You are answer the question are Italians Roman? Just an FYI. Feel free to discuss whichever question you wish.

The current Italians are descended from the Romans. The current Italian culture I assume descends from the Roman culture. So there is a link there, but it is a one way link. The Roman culture of the past wasn't shaped by the current Italian culture.

"Italians are Romans gone wrong." - that could be a reasonable opinion if that is what one thinks. But "Caesar is Italian" certainly doesn't follow. Which Caesar anyway? Julius, or one of the ones that followed?

Kaptin, I don't think that Jews of Judea called themselves Israeli. I don't know where you got that information, but I don't believe it is correct. Nor do I think others (Romans) called them that either.

I suppose that Israeli would be the modern nation and Israelite would be the hereditary nation.

Yes, Israelite may be the proper term, hence saying that Jesus is Israeli is wrong.

I wasn't thinking before, I just got out of Thermodynamics like 10 min ago, I was trying to take notes and participate... fail on my part.

Ancient Italy was composed of Latins, Greeks, Etruscans, and other tribes. Than you consider the early invasion of the Gauls and later by the German tribes begs the question. What do mean by Roman, or Italian? Culture wise they have direct connection, geneticly like most of humanity they are mutts.

Mutts with a heavy Latin over tones. Many mosaics of people of the ancient period look stricking like the people of current Italian population.

It's just like how Greece got invaded by Slavic tribes so now modern Greeks share more in common with Ukrainians than they do with Socrates' ilk.

At least that's what I've read.

This is, I think, also related to the Macedonia (or FYRM) naming controversy.

Personally I think you can name your country whatever you want......... it's not like Zimbabwe has much in common besides geography with the ancient Great Zimbabwe, but why should it? It's a national pride thing, that they occupy that land.

Which is why it would be perfectly fine for Italy to change its name to Rome. It would be a nod to their glorious history.

However it might be ill-advised, since other countries might interpret it as a call to arms to start a new empire lol.

Or worse demand reperations from the empire period.

"weak mutant offspring", eh? and pigmeos are the fragant proof of that kind of biological theories, i guess.
why don't you read a little about biology kaptin?

@ checkmate I think that was a attempt at being funny.

First, REGARDLESS of the truth or fiction of the Roman-Italian association...

To call ANY race a "weak mutant offspring" is not only a bigoted comment in its nature and general meaning, but especially in a world filled with "ethnic clensings" in the last century... those are not acceptable words or terms for any race and are offensive (and this is coming from the Jew who eats ham regularly, questions God, and generally calls anyone who does not scrutinize ideas or beliefs before accepting them foolish... and then some... I'm not at ALL Mr. PC, I LOVE to stir the drink, so to speak, but there's stirring it and then there's spitting in it...)


In regards to the question... I don't think the Romans were native to the Penninsula, the earliest peoples came and settled there when the Italian tribes were already there... there IS some historic truth behind the Iliad, and the Aneid is the Roman follow up, so perhaps they mingled with the Italians after coming to Italy from... Troy, perhaps? If we take the texts (that aspect of it, anyway, concerning the Greeks fighting a people called the Trojans for whatever reason, Troy destroyed, and then a diaspora... it's happened before AND "Trojan" and "Roman" are not too dissimilar... perhaps...?)

Greeks share more in common with Ukrainians? If only Greek girls looked that good...

I'm not sure if the Aneid is accepted the same way as the Iliad is now seen. Some saw it as a attempt by early Latins to tie them selves to the more advanced Greeks. It seems the Romans in their early history had feeling of culture inferiorty compared to the Greeks and Etruscans.

@obiwanobiwan - I was merely referring to the success of the Romans vs. the apparent incapability of success of the Italians (in terms of any sort of stable governance). Perhaps you are right that the language was overly offensive, perhaps you would prefer:

"far-less-capable, hardly recognizable, descendants" so as to make it less offensive
But I digress, I don't hate Italians, I was just over emphasizing how inferior they are (those of whom have Roman descent) to their ancestors.

Also you are right that Romans allegedly came from Troy (modern day Turkey), and the question was phrased wrong. The original question asked if modern italians were Roman descent. I think that that question has been mostly concluded.

@checkmate - the mutation I was referring to is the character in modern Italians that predisposes them to military and governing failure... in fact it is so prevalent that it is most likely encoded in their very genome.

That was a joke by the way.

have you guys ever heard of the joke..
"the italians may take 80 years to build a simple overpass, and while the rest of the world just finds it plan lazy, it's more the Italians saying- 'we already ruled the world, why would we want to bother building a silly bridge, been there done that'

@hellalt Perhaps it's that Swedish Viking blood in the Ukrainians. What every happened to beautiful Helen.

@doofman - funny saying, Germans on the other hand just continually strive for success... turns out that's bad when its political, so now they just watch the money bags.

lol hellalt i wasn't exactly talking about looks, but it is true that i generalized that.

you know what i mean though, don't you? being from Greece?

Or.. did I make all that stuff up?

The Slavs did occupy Greece and displace the... i guess they were Dorians.... that were there from ancient times right?

right?

Damn you two ruining my romatic image of Greek woman being like Helen and other mythic beauties.

Of course Caesar was Italian. He was from Italy.

@ Invictus Your taking all the fun out of it by being logical.

If Romans are Italians, than should they pay reperations to the countries they conquered?

Of course. I, an Irish American citizen, should receive money from the Italian government because my ancestors were victims of slaving raids by the Romans. It goes to show you how stupid reparations are.

As a German and Scot/English/Gaul(mainland) I should get a lot.

lol - what does a German/Canadian get?

are tigers cats?? it's like the same question but not really.

damn i'm going to bed just had to get my one dumb post in

Yes but are they the same kind of cats?

Tigers tend to like pepper and cinnamon and are somewhat philosophical.

vs.

House cats just have an overall hatred for anything that doesn't feed into their narcissism.

I've heard that before?

Does that mean Romans were tigers and Italians are cats?

Well the pepper and cinnamon is from the Hangover, I was referring to Hobbes (Calvin and Hobbes) about being philosophical... and house cats are just like that.

Ooooh, good analogy, didn't even think of that!

I knew I heard the Tiger part before. Nice add on with the cat.

I would guess the majority of Italians are descended from the Romans. Sure there were invasions but most of gene pool would be local.
I don't think Greeks are the same as the slavs though. Modern Macedonia yes, but Greek no. Greek is not a slavic language.