You're not alone, Chris. :) Neither are you, Pong.

I think Vash is just doing a bluff and will probably backstab you in the next game again.

BTW, metagaming is frowned upon.

fastspawn: yeah, i don't think Vash does stuff like that.

So, I shouldn't expect dummy accounts and "friends" "all the time", or add to that metagame?

>_> Do you really think I do that, why and I have a real problem with people not telling the truth

He only thinks that because I am winning currently.

I know some people who does do that plus, what proof do you have that I do that anyway. I had no problem with you until you said my name.

I help alot of people in games and make good deals. I tell them all, "I am not here to win just here to have fun and to help others" that trust me enough to help them out in whatever way I can. If you dont trust me then oh well, I could care less. I am here to play and have a good time when I have time off.

Other people that cheat are fags.

OH and if some of you dont trust me, here:

http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=1215&msgmembershipid=7195

Thats a guy I helped out throughout the whole game

Lol, Vash, nobody is on your case. Well at least I'm not. But I'm also piss fucking drunk right now. So what do I know?

I hope this thread answers my question: (Do) "people do it all the time." I'm a newbie getting my bearings. Others please weigh in.

What is acceptable? What should I expect?

Most players play fairly and there's the occasional meta-game but there are some players who use dummy accounts to make it easier to win.

If *some* players use dummies, their numbers are doubled, tripled, even sextupled. So the persons may be rare, but these "players" aren't so uncommon, right?

Why dont you go tell that to Rait -_- Both of us dont even use dummy accounts - We been here long enough to have our numbers 'right'

@Vash, who is Rait? Would you mind not hijacking this thread?

The topic: how common is (what Vash described), and, is it acceptable? Like, will about 50% of games feature a proxy at some point, or 10% or 90%? Then I'm going to ask how people detect them.

Keep an eye in the forums where troublemakers' names will crop up. You'll soon learn who to avoid and who not to trust. It is not a coincidence that many players refuse to start or join open games and only play passworded games with specially chosen people who they know they can depend on for a fair and honest game.

I'm quite convinced that the conversation was real. That's just not the type of chatting people make up.

Vash, what the hell are you talking about? Where does Rait come into all of this?

@Pong, he refers to Rait, who probably has the best win-loss ratio of any other player here. It's actually frustrating how good he is. =D

I have no idea how common multiple accounts are, because I simply do not come across them. I currently seem to be playing only these "Mastermind" games, and I'm fairly sure that none of them have multiple accounts, and are all individual persons. Before that, when the site was younger, I do not recall nearly as much of this cheating, and if multiple accounts were ever used, they were used poorly, because it did not stop me from winning a decent amount of games.

There are a few complaints about these sorts of things every now and then however. It is NOT acceptable at all. Meta-gaming, multiple accounts, and preset alliances are against the spirit of Diplomacy. People who engage in such underhanded techniques ruin the game experience for themselves and all other players in their game. They have no real good reason to do it either, as winning does not come with any sort of prize, all they win is a pitiful amount of ego, but apparently there are still lowlifes whose only comfort in life is that they win a few Diplomacy games, albeit through cheating.

Although, standards on meta-gaming vary from player to player. Some see it as a grander Diplomacy in the scale of things, but personally, I try to go into each new game completely openminded, and do not worry about past quarrels. Of course, it is extremely difficult, without total anonymity, to ignore players who you know are disloyal, or those who make excellent and faithful allies.

surely you mean "to exploit those who make excellent and faithful allies..."

@Noodlebug: lol.

oh, and Rait is beating the crap out of us in MasterMinds IV. unless he hasn't already won.

i think PolishTeaParty is right. Vash was probably trying to trick whoever it was.

1. It might be useful to people like me and Vash to start a list of reliable players (an old thread I had started, idea poo-pooed).
2. How does one get into the inner circle of invitees to password games?
3. Chrisp - aren't you a bit young to be getting piss drunk?

Perhaps a counter of moves a player has missed in their profile would be in order?

That's actually a very good idea.

The data is available. What are computers for anyway?

I'd like to see a ratio of games played through vs. games abandoned.

@The Mahatma

1. well, i remember there was a good counter argument because you were a new player back then. i suppose if you become a MasterMind everyone automatically trusts you (even will6691 - at least we actually knew HOW he was cheating) but i'd trust you now.

2. again, become a MasterMind. at least that's how i did it. i actually beat Salmaneser once :) ("the pro game") most people who cheat don't stay at the website long enough to reach a high ranking.

3. last i checked i was the youngest player on the site (12, anyone else?).

@Ryoshi, Tucobenodicto: that idea was murdered a few hundred threads ago. too much work and kestas said he'd do something similar in future updates.

@Pong:
1. for rubbing it in Bill Gate's face. MAC'S RULE!!!
2. you can tell if a person is one who abandons a lot of games if you've played them many times (again, a reason not to use the "one game with one person at a time" rule) so that's not really necessary.

1. I play one game at a time, so maybe I'll be a MM by 2008.
2. There's the rub. MM's are playing password games against each other, but I am sure there are other strong, reliable players who have not attained that status. There are also MM players out there who don't finalize their moves when they're on the ropes in a game.
3. Aha, aoe3rules, I was confused - I thought it was Chrispminis who said he was in the 6th form in that earlier thread. Not that being the 6th form should dissuade you from getting drunk off your ass.

Actually, I think the ranking system is flawed.
I look at the Mahatma's profile and compare it with aoe3rules, and realize, hey Mahatma technically has a better record than aoe3rules.
I am not trying to slight aoe3rules in anyway, but then a 3 out of 3 score sure beats 7 out of 30 or so.

I am increasingly of the opinion the ranking system should be done away with and just pure numbers (win ratio, number of games won, number of games survived)

Of course it is much easier to win 3 out of 3 rather than 35 out of 35. That is why Rait's score is simply outstanding since he has played in so many games and has won half of them. Anything about 30% is outstanding given that the average should be around 14%

Nice to hear my name, but the truth is that I can't quite get how I'm linked to the topic of metagaming & double accounts :)

Yeah, I was wondering. It seems people are trying to get a list of stronger and more reliable players.

@Mahatma
I habitually do not finalize my moves, because your last updated orders are taken when you do not finalize. I do this because it allows time for others to respond to me, and it ensures that I do not miss any phases. The so-called inner circle of masterminds is not as prestigious as you think, have no fear, I am all for new blood in our series, and don't mind if they're not even a MM yet. A good record is more indicative of skill anyways, although, expect your peachy record to drop as soon as you join said "inner circle", mind certainly took a hit, from the 50% I nourished so proudly, hahaha. All you must do really, is to express an interest in playing, and whomever creates the game typically emails the password to the players selected. And I'm only a weeee bit young to get drunk. No worries. =D