I hope he does. It's so funny to watch him squabble in front of the whole country.

Rand Paul 2016. Fuck everyone else.

...If my choices are Rand Paul or Rick Perry for POTUS, I'm moving to Canada or the UK.

(Mexico's closer than either place, but no...or, en Espanol--no.)

Then again, bo_sox has a point...it was sort of fun to watch Perry fumble the ball on live TV over and over again in those debates...

I would be the first person to move to Gozo, I guarantee it.

Obiwanobiwan, while I despise both Rand Paul and Rick Perry, sayiing you will run away is stupid:
A) It gives up ground and numbers to yur opponents, and
B) It makes you sound as stupid as the conservatives who after Obama was reelected stated they were going to move to Australia, with our at the time prime minister who was/is an unmarried atheist woman.

The GOP is not stupid. (Although many of their public agents are.) Next election, they will throw out the Perrys and the Santorums, as well as plenty of other wild cards. But there's no chance whatsoever any of them will make it very close to the nomination. Above all, they're going to throw out some young (maybe Latino), intelligent, more moderate (but still aggressive) candidate. He's gonna be someone completely unexpected, with the charisma of Ronald Reagan and the looks of a Kennedy. Someone who's working to pass landmark legislation already, and who's popular for working across the aisle...

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, if the Republican Party has learned anything (it's possible they still haven't), we might end up seeing posters saying 'Marco Rubio 2016.'

Rand Paul 2016

Calvin Coolidge 2016

Why do you guys despise Rand Paul? With as fucked up as Washington is, you can't honestly believe that a libertarian has nothing to offer.

He does have some good things to offer. Unfortunately, he also has a huge number of appalling things to offer as well.

^I don't see libertarianism as the answer.

It's as simple as that.

I've literally written dozens of pages-worth on why I am not a fan of libertarianism as a solution to our problems, and why I in particular dislike Ron/Rand Paul and their idealized conception of an the already-idealized Jeffersonian Agrarian/Self-Sustained State.

It's not that libertarians don't have anything to offer...

It's simply that I don't care for what they have to offer and don't feel it's an answer that will work and not a solution on the whole I can get behind (I get behind an aspect here and there, but not so much because I agree with libertarianism so much as it's an aspect of libertarianism that doesn't clash with my liberalism/centrism, ie, gay marriage...libertarians tend to worry less about that--Rand Paul is an exception, but then this is a man who insists there's a war on Christianity in arguably the most openly-Christian state this side of the Vatican--and so my libertarian friends and I agree on gay marriage, even if we only agree on it because we're coming to the same conclusion from different angles and vantage points...but when it comes to matters such as gun control or the basic philosophical questions as to what the role of government should be...sorry, libertarianism isn't for me. At all.)

And that's as simply and politely as I can put it--

I'm not saying every idea it has is invalid, wrong, evil or anything like that, I won't demonize libertarianism the many adherents to any given political party will demonize the competition...

It's just not a solution I agree with, and so I exercise my democratic right to align with other, more like-minded individuals while respectfully disagreeing and hoping to keep the lines of communication and debate always open, because as much as I do like liberalism, it doesn't have the answer to everything, and as much as I prefer to be Left-of-Center, you know what, depending on the issue I might veer further to the Left or further to the Right...vote based on the issue, not the platform.

Obi, you know, libertarianism is not inherently right-wing. It tends to be associated with conservatives and right-leaning folks in the US because American conservativism tends to veer toward small government. But that's a historical accident, not an inherent part of the movement. http://c4ss.org/ is a neat website self-described as "Left Market Anarchist." The Alliance of the Libertarian Left is basically pro-market anti-capitalists (http://praxeology.net/all-left.htm). There are many similar organizations. Remember that the ultimate purpose of communism, at least ideally, isn't a powerful government - it's the withering away of the state.

Now of course you can still favor a big government, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't make you automatically left of center. It just means you favor stronger government.

Rick Perry is the Republican Dennis Kucinich. He'll run for the GOP nomination, but his only practical use will be to make Donald Trump look grounded and civil.

Rand Paul would make a very strong candidate. His economic and social policies endear him to the right, and his stand against drones will play well with civil liberties activists who are already freaking out about NSA data collection, meaning he'll be able to pull from disaffected privacy advocates who have historically tended to skew left but are deeply disaffected with the Obama administration. I'm not sure I see anybody left, right, or center who could beat him, provided he can raise the money.

"depending on the issue I might veer further to the Left or further to the Right...vote based on the issue, not the platform."

obiwanobiwan, you're a down the line liberal Democrat on every issue. That's fine, but don't pretend not to be.


And way to misrepresent what Ron Paul and Rand Paul believe. First off, apart from an emphasis on individual liberty, they're really quite different. Neither of them call for a "Jeffersonian Agrarian/Self-Sustained State," whatever that's supposed to mean, but just actually mean what they say about supporting individual liberty, constitutionalism, and the rule of law. But what's the point explaining it to you? Rand Paul's a Republican, so you'll never vote for him. Zombie Nelson Rockefeller wouldn't get obiwanobiwan's vote, not matter how much he pretends to just vote on issues.

@ obiwanobiwan

With all due respect, I don't see how anyone could rationally oppose the ideals of small government.

"Rand Paul is an exception, but then this is a man who insists there's a war on Christianity in arguably the most openly-Christian state this side of the Vatican"

Who cares? He has done nothing during his Senate tenure to indicate that he would serve as some sort of theocrat. On the contrary, he is probably one of the most socially liberal candidates that stands a real chance of getting elected.

"even if we only agree on it because we're coming to the same conclusion from different angles and vantage points"

As long as you hold the same opinion, is the rationale for holding that opinion something of consequence? If I favor the legalization of gay marriage at the federal level because I believe the federal government does not have the authority to pass/enforce legislation on marriage, and you favor the legalization of gay marriage at the federal level because gay people "should have equal rights", is that difference of justification significant? I would argue no, because we are both working towards the same goal (albeit with a different level of fervency)

"but when it comes to matters such as gun control"

Let's say, hypothetically, Rand Paul gets elected and halts enforcement of all federal gun laws. He also orders the DoJ to challenge state gun legislation in federal courts in hopes of getting some more restrictive state laws struck down. Why do you care, obi? Don't like guns? Don't buy one. That's your prerogative as a citizen. But you can't yell and scream and whine about civil rights for gays and remain silent about civil rights for gun owners. That's the fantastic thing about libertarianism. We're pro-*everything*. You want a gay marriage? You can have one! You want a fully automatic rifle? You can have one!

"basic philosophical questions as to what the role of government should be"

The federal government should not do anything beyond its Constitutional prerogative. If it does anything more than that, it's tyranny. Benign tyranny such as welfare and Medicare is still tyranny. This system of institutionalized, bureaucratic dependence must stop. It is not sustainable.

A quick Google search confirmed what I was pretty sure was true all along. Rand Paul is a free trader. So is Ron Paul. So saying they back a "self-sustained state" is totally wrong.

Look here, my conservative friends, I think I have a couple of major points to make, and you'd do well to listen.

1) It's way too early to start caring about who the rep. nominee will be
2) Rand Paul sucks and so does Rick Perry
3) It doesn't matter who you pick, if your party doesn't unfuck itself quickly and start acting sensibly on social issues you will lose badly. Again.

That is all,

YJ

Sadly, YJ is spot on here.

Of course....the *precisely* same thing can be said about all the fools trying to annoint Hilary Clinton. Obama may own the White House now, but 2016 is ages away, and nobody likes *anybody* in Congress, Democrat OR Republipuke. Few like Obama any more, and his policies are now being derided even by his former supporters.

IN short, there is no favorable politician *anywhere* in America today.

We'd be better off electing a lab monkey that gone mad with syphilis...

Don't you worry, 2016 predictors, Ted Nugent is here to save the day!

I think Ted Nugent is exactly who krellin was describing there at the end.

I hope he's not. He's beyond krellin if you ask me.

I disagree with YJ

The Republicans need to start compromising on some social issues and double down on others. Emphasize and revitalize "Old Right" principles of small government and non-foreign-interventionism.

And on which ones ought they double down? Your second sentence is absolutely true.

The King is Dead. Long Live the King.

(Greg Abbott)

Reminder that Rick Perry is personally responsible for the wrongful execution of an innocent man.

(Google Cameron Todd Willingham)

Reminder that Thucydides died thousands of years ago.

(Google Thucydides)