Oh and number of leagues is just going to be based on the number of players who sign up divided by 7. I don't think I am going to limit the number of leagues if we have too many players (which I doubt will be a problem anyway). As far as going back... I don't really follow what the change was in the first place. As far as I understand, there is an A* (premier), A1, B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, C3, D1, D2, D3 respectively. Am I getting something wrong?

I just have one request. Can the ridiculous Premiere, A, AA, etc. crap get dropped. Maybe something simple like, oh I don't know, A, B, C? A is the best, then B, then C. Everyone doesn't need to be in some sort of "A" level. Just my opinion.

Cross post. Sorry.

@jimgov- No. First off, the way the league is organized now is fine and traditional. Also, the way promotions, demotions, and previous league position would be determined, based on the system that you devised would be much harder. Lastly, I happen to love the format, the way it is now and there's not need to screw with a perfect system.

Stop telling the guy what to do. He sets it up, his rules. Play by them or don't join the league.
Democracy is for chumps. Compasionate Dictatorship jgurstein!

Last season saw 14 player A* and A leagues. So there will be some effort required to get nack to the seven player for them. there was discussion about only allowing the winner to return to A*/premiere to reduce the metagaming at the top.

@jg, first off, there were only 2 B leagues, so Premier, A, B1/B2, C1/C2/C3, D1/D2/D3/D4/....

Second, I think jimgov was talking about the name of each level, not the actual functioning of each level.

So labelled A, B, C1/C2, D1/D2/D3, E1/E2/E3/E4/... instead of Premier, A, B1/B2, C1/C2/C3, D1/D2/D3/D4/..., but functionally the same.

I think Ghost called the top level "Premier" because he was basing it off of English soccer/football leagues.

@Alderian- I stand corrected. There are only 2 B leagues and there are 4 leagues. About renaming the leagues, first off premier can almost be considered its own level. Besides for the similar 14 person pool that they share (which is not even certain yet), they are completely different as far as placing, demotions, and promotions are concerned.

@Draug- Like I said, I am trying to stick to the 14 man pool in A* and A levels but various factors might complicate this so only time will tell.

Well, ora was going back to the 7 cause we found the 14 person pools had worse issues than metagaming.

@jimgov, I prefered calling the Premier league the A* league. Partly to help distinguish between the 7 -> 14 player pools being tried out for the last season.

7 player pools with 6 demotions seems fine (it means anyone who still has a shot at first place can still fight for it, whereas previously the problem was that 4 players in the Premier league would sit around waiting for it to end...) - but i also felt 6 demotions from the Premier league would require more than one A league below for them to play in.

3-A pools with 2 Premier players each seemed best. Though fixing the issues with the top pool of players (like i had proposed) does hurt the levels of progression felt by players in the lower leagues. Having A, B, C and D to progress through is definitely a desirable aspect of the league system.

Perhaps the demotions from the Premier pool should by
1st player remains in Premier.
2nd and 3rd demoted to A.
4th, 5th and 6th demoted to B.
7th demoted to C.

This would add further competition to the Premier league without requiring more A leagues to demote them to (and even competition with those 6 who will be demoted.)

Yes, i think that's the best solution...

No biggie. I guess the whole Premiere league thing is from soccer/football in Europe.

But how would you handle last seasons 14 player A* and A? I would have said for 7 players that 3 go down to A and 3 go down to B. That would bring 6 up from A and 3 up from B to fill the spots. But still doesn't solve last season.

@draug: i would probably do whatever it was i did when i seeded the spring season... which if you'll recall leaves you out complete :p

Only because your stupid ass spreadsheet was corrupted by vandals *after* I warned you that it was too exposed. :-P

i think that if we are to return to the 7 player pools for the A/A*leagues of this season, we have to place everyone in corrected leagues BEFORE we started regular relegations and promotions. so as a basic template:

A*- demote 7 from the 14 of last season. then, demote 3 more in coodinance with the rules.
A- promote 3 BEFORE considering relegated A* players. that leaves the league with 14. demote 7 to b leagues and then 3 more in coordinance with the rules.
B- promote 3. (now with 28 players), priority in b placing goes to those demoted from a leagues NOT with coordinance with the rules, then players demoted in coordinance with the rules, then players who were in b league last year. 6 demotions are then considered from people who occupied the b leagues last season.

this reverts back to the origional setup of the webdiplomacy leagues. of course, many more players will be demoted than premoted but those players need to understand that this is where they should have been placed last season as well. now, this is only if we go back to 7 player pools. i am still willing to consider 14 if thats what people want.

So your saying make A* be A* plus A and A be B1 and B2 and then shift everyone down? Thatw as how we combined them.

I would consider it thie way A* was the top seven from A* and A was the bottom seven.
B1 are 1,3,5,7,9,11,13 from A and B2 are 2,4,6,8,10,12, 14 from A.

Then do your promotions and demotions.

But it's your league and I am just here to help in any way I can.

No matter what you do, someone will be unhappy, but that is life. As long as I am no lower than B (I came in seventh place in A*) then I am good.

well i think filling in the b leagues is just going to work on who signs up first and even who joins at all. besides for that, yes. i basically plan on just unravelling it back to the way it was. draug, if you came in 7th in A* then you would dodge the first demotion and only be subject to the second. basically, the lowest you can possibly go (assuming players dont claim their positions from other seasons) is A. if 3 people from A* dont show up, you might even stay in A*.

One thing to note, jg. We had a policy (I don't recall if it was in the rules) that if you miss a season, you are automatically demoted. So just because someone used to be in premiere, but went away for two seasons, they would not be eligible for premier or A. Best they could do would be B.

That was to encourage returns. Our biggest problem was the metagaming at premiere where winning the season didn't get you anything. The goal was justt o not come in the last few spots so a four way team could hold onto their spots season after season. That's why I think only allowing the winner to play premiere/A* the next season is good.

And now that it's your league, tweek the rules as you see fit. Go A* with 6 demotions, 2 As with 3 promotions and 3 demotions each, 3 Bs with 2 promotions and demotions based on the number of open leagues so the winner of each open league is guaranteed a promotion.

Hey, wow! That signup form was swell. Did Draug do that? If so, props to Draug. If not, please reallocate the aforementioned props to the appropriate recipient.

Nope, that was JG did it. All props go to him.

And yeah, JG. Awesome form, my friend.

i wasnt aware of the metagaming that went on in the premier league... obviously, something must be done to fix that. for right now, draug seems to offer the best solution to this problem but if someone else has a different idea, please dont hesitate to let me know.

as for being placed lower when you miss a season, im not sure about. i will have to recheck the rules and think about it a little more when i have some time.

and thanks for the compliments for the signup form. the things i do for you guys.. ;)