You can't break support with the unit the support is directed at.

No, the key is that you can't cut the support by a unit supporting an attack on yourself unless you dislodge it. Had someone else attacked, the support would have been cut. Likewise, had you additional support, you would have dislodged ukraine and rumania would have moved there.

Sorry, Glueduck beat me to it...

The reason this happened is because Ukraine was supported by Moscow.

Right, so it wasn't dislodged and using the rule that a unit cannot cut support in an attack on itself, the support was still provided and the attack succeeded.

The support hold of Ukraine by Moscow has nothing to do with the success of Gal-Rum. Moscow is responsible for Ukraine not falling, but Moscow has no influence on the result in Rumania.

No true. Had moscow not supported, Rum would have moved to Ukraine and Gal would have just moved in behind unsupported, but the support would have been cut because it would have been dislodged.

make sense. but i thought if two pairs of units support themselves against each other, the move bounce. for example. so basically, from this example, if two pairs of units are supporting against each other, and each of them is moving to the support unit of the other pair, then the move succeeds?

like what if moscow hit sevastopol instead of support holding ukraine?> what would happen then?

and what if sevastopol hit ukraine instead of supporting rumania to ukraine?

that would have had the exact same result.

nope nevermind, sevestapol was supported. the ukraine would have fallen

and rumania would have been empty

ahh confusing lol

they would bounce if it was galicia supporting ukrain to rumania...
This way ukrain is not dislodged because it is supported by moscow, but rumania is dislodged because galicia was supported by ukrain. As others said, the unit attacked cannot cut the support...

If you had reversed the hit and support on Ukraine (Sev hit Ukarain with Rum support) then the board would have stayed exactly where it was.

If Mos had not supported Ukr, then Rum would have moved into Ukr and Rum, having Bul move there as well, would be empty because Bul would have bounced with Gal as Gal lost it's support when Ukr was dislodged.

Its quite simple really:

Support is cut when:
1. The Unit is dislodged
2. The Unit is attacked from a province other than the one that the support is acting against.
3. (Trivially) The Unit being supported does not move or hold as appropriate for the support

Sorry I misread your question, I thought you asked if Sevestopol was hit by Moscow.

i understand. thank you all!

but wait. if moscow did not hold ukraine, the move should have bounced right?
because rumania cannot cancel ukraine support because ukraine is supporting a unit that is attacking it..
what im getting at is. if moscow did not support hold ukraine, it would bounce.

so basically, the support hold from moscow helped galicia to rumania. in other words, the same effect would have happened if moscow were to hit sevastopol.

but then that doesnt seem to make sense..because if moscow did not support, then rumania would take ukraine, and galicia would take rumania (given that bulgaria did not move to rumania)

what would bounce?

okay. here are the questions:
1. if moscow did not support hold ukraine, the move would bounce? or would rumania just move to ukraine, and galicia move to rumania (given that bulgaria did not move)

2. if moscow hit sevastopol instead of support holding ukraine, would rumania still fall?

3. i thought movements of equal power bounce, but in this case, ukraine support galicia (1+1) = sevastopol support rumania (1+1)
so is there an exception to this rule?

1. Rumania would take the Ukraine with support from Sevastopol, Galicia and Bulgaria would bounce and Rumania would be empty.

2. Since Sevastopol was supported Rumania to the Ukraine would still be supported and Rumania would take the Ukraine. Then Galicia and Bulgaria would bounce in Rumania.

3. If you move an equal force (Rum+Sev => Ukr+Mos), the standing force (Ukr+Mos) will sit and the moving force (Rum+Sev) will bounce back, however any support provided by the standing force is cut. No exceptions.

1. Rum takes Ukr and (as the real case may be) Rum remains empty because Bul did attempt to move to Rum, bouncing with Gal. If Bul hadn't moved, Gal would move in behind Rum.

2. No, Sev was not the unit under seige, so it's attack would have cut the support.

3. the equal power must be applied to the same province. In this case, it was two on two at Ukr (because Mos supported Ukr) and 2 on 1 at Rum (because of the aforementioned inability to cut support directed at itself). Reverse the roles so that Sev hits Ukr with Rum support and it becomes 1 on 1 at both locations as the supports are both cut by their attackers.

KaptainKool, reread his question on #2. It would be a bounce.

Never mind, I needed to reread.

KaptianKool is correct on #2. My apologies sir.

2. Sevestapol was supported by the Black Sea so its support would not be cut. Therefore it would support Rumania into the Ukraine.

"it would support Rumania" should read "Sevestapol would support Rumania" for clarification.

Okay then

2. Actually, Sev's support would have been cut. IT would have been stalemate. I was right the first time. Now you got me second guessing myself. Mos attack on Sev cuts Sev's support, thereby causing the exact same result as occured woudl still occur because Rum can't cut support for an attack directed at itself.

OK, clarification...

1. Rum takes Ukr and (as the real case may be) Rum remains empty because Bul did attempt to move to Rum, bouncing with Gal. If Bul hadn't moved, Gal would move in behind Rum.

2. No, Sev was not the unit under seige, so it's attack would have cut the support and the exact same results would have occurred.

3. the equal power must be applied to the same province. In this case, it was two on two at Ukr (because Mos supported Ukr) and 2 on 1 at Rum (because of the aforementioned inability to cut support directed at itself). Reverse the roles so that Sev hits Ukr with Rum support and it becomes 1 on 1 at both locations as the supports are both cut by their attackers.

as has been said, ukraine's support of the move galicia>rumania cannot be cut by the object of the attack. for ukraine to be dislodged and the support cut, the support hold from moscow must also be cut (impossible here). here is the hypothetical situation i used to explain what must happen for turkey to win a similar standoff:

imagine units (all armies) in the following placement:

AUSTRIA
-warsaw

ENGLAND
-ukraine
-moscow

TURKEY
-galicia
-rumania
-sevastopol
-----------------------
AUSTRIA's orders:
warsaw>galicia

ENGLAND's orders:
ukraine support move warsaw>galicia
moscow support hold ukraine

TURKEY's orders:
galicia>ukraine
rumania support move galicia>ukraine
sevastopol>moscow

moscow must defend itself against the army from sevastopol, so unless there is support for moscow from the unit in st petersburg, the support is cut to ukraine and ukraine falls to galicia. since ukraine is dislodged, warsaw>galicia has no support anymore and may possibly bounce.

@Draugnar
Original 2. if moscow hit sevastopol instead of support holding ukraine, would rumania still fall?

Sevastopol was supported, so moscow hitting it would do nothing, its support would continue through and the ukraine would have fallen.

Because the Ukraine would no longer be supported by Moscow.

idealist
May I suggest you have a play around with Jdip - it might be the best way to get your head round it.

Wrong KaptinKool. Supported or not, the support it provides gets cut. Try it in game and see it happen.

Support to a supporting unit does not prevent that support from getting cut, it just makes it more difficult to dislodge the unit. You can support a unit with 5 others and one attack on it will cut any support it is providing, unless that attack come from the unit who is being attacked by it's support.

@jpartlo I think you have something wrong there. You said "moscow must defend itself against the army from sevastopol, so unless there is support for moscow from the unit in st petersburg, the support is cut to ukraine and ukraine falls to galicia. " It doesn't matter how much support Mos has. If it is attacked by Sevas, any support it is giving is cut.

i stand corrected. i think i have a better grasp of the rules now, but also one last question:
is there a way turkey could have both taken ukraine and held rumania given england and austria's moves?

i thought i worked out that hypothetical situation in a program similar to jdip, but i must have missed something. apologies.

figles, what is jdip?

that's what i thought too. seva is cut if it was hit by any unit.

http://jdip.sourceforge.net/

note: I don't use it, but lots of people do and they say its really good.