And "under god" was added to the pledge of allegiance in 1954.

@JECE, I'm not sure what founders were atheists... Thomas Paine comes the closest, perhaps (and it was claimed by some of his vocal opponents) - though I've heard it argued fairly convincingly that he, like Franklin and Jefferson, was a deist. ...also - what you're saying is that there was a red-scare even then?

...oh - by "then" you mean the 1950's... I thought you were referring to 200+ years ago.

Yes. 200+ years ago is not pertinent, because the references to religion were not introduced then.

Well, I actually challenged two statements. The first sentance challenged "the founders had certain blind spots". The rest challenged "especially for the times". I failed to mention before that the founding fathers had nothing to do with this issue.

@JECE, I'm not following your argument. You claimed that many of the founding fathers were atheistic - but you didn't support it... and I'm not sure what you're saying in regards to the red-scare-related changes in the 1950's. I need more explanation if I'm to understand.

there are also two different kinds of evangelicals, well at least two big types. there are the ones like in the movie, and then there are evangelical free. which is what i am(technically) we take the bible word for word, except we understand that the bible wasn't written to us. instead we use what was said in the bible and put them into more modern circumstances.

and i said technically cause there are many things i wrestle with in the Evangelical free ideas.

I am saying that you keep referencing the founding fathers, but they have nothing to do with "In God we trust" or ". . . one nation, under god, indivisible . . .". These references to religion became a problem much later. The founding fathers don't matter to this case, except for that they wrote and designed the guarantees within the constitution. I am laying full blame where you previously weren't looking, and am laying the blame on people that had no excuse for what they did.

@JECE, The "In God we trust" behind the podium in the House chamber I assumed had always been there since construction... perhaps I shouldn't have assumed that. Do you know when that was put in? I certainly realize that much of the other symbolic religious encroachment into our political lives is recent - primarily as a reaction to the fears about the Soviets. ...and agreed, they shouldn't have done those things. I certainly know that efforts to insert God into our government did not start 60 years ago, though. For example apparently there was quite a push to get God put in the Constitution... which was successfully argued down (as they followed Virginia's Constitution as the model in that regard). As you probably know, most or all but Virginia's State Constitutions had clauses in them that favored certain religions over others. We've been fighting this battle since the formation of the country... and we'll continue to do so. ...then there is the creator reference in the Declaration... not a big deal in my book... it is poetic and it is, after all, a document intended for a very specific audience: to sell Europe and our own public on our legitimacy. Might as well pull out all the stops for that. The Constitution, on the other hand, was not a piece of marketing... it was a blue print for a country... and needed to be handled very differently. Thankfully it was.

No, as I was looking I saw that "In God We Trust" first appeared on a coin in 1864, during the Civil War. So it doeas have a longer history.

@OP

I am a Christian. I did a quick search on the film and from what I read I can strongly say NO, I do not endorse "Jesus Camp."

Christianity has lost the fundamental principles of what Jesus preached, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." They're brainwashing these kids to endorse THEIR views, and THEIR doctrine, not God's. In result, these kids learn to preach God's word by saying, "Abortion is wrong. Ghost stories are wrong! Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan are wrong! Harry Potter is wrong! Global warming is political!" It's just plain sick.

I've seen it at my own church. I belong to a Lutheran church. It happens just the same here, except on a lower level. I fully intend on not attending Church if I cannot find a suitable Church that teaches Truth.

You could always follow the European path: 'I am a Christian, but I don't believe in god' approach. :-)

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