Just a bit though, you didn't go all out on cursing or anything. I tend to dislike ALL CAPS, perhaps its just me that finds it offensive.

i did not curse... but i used all caps to show how truly angry I am...

It's ok, I get it.

I suggest you email Kestas about this.

Babak, please take a deep breath and stay calm.

I assume you didn't take a screenshot, else you would have posted it? Ok, e-mailing Kestas, detailing in which games this has taken place is probably the best option. Of course, he probably needs to be able to repeat the error in order to fix it, which may, or may not, be a problem.

However, unless you email him, he won't be able to help you at all.

Ghost

yeah - deep breath taken... its just quite annoying.

I agree with what the other two have said, but I'll just add in that I am yet to see that fault in the site through my 69+3 games (compared to your 59+11). Now obviously you might be right, but as a) its not happened to me in a comparable amount of gameplay it seems seriously unlikely the site is wrong.
Moreover, as I've said before if the order faulted then it would be much more likely that it went completely wrong and the new information didn't make sense to the site. Somehow a signal that means 'Greece' has to error to form one that represents 'Tunis'.

Much more likely is that there was an issue in your browser, the most common of which is not deselecting the input field before moving to submit the orders, when you can accidentally move the mouse wheel, thus scrolling to a different option.

But Fig - I KNOW you all including Kestas will not find a 'technical' way to correct this as you will not find the 'error. what I'm saying is that this is the 3rd or 4th time where the EXACT same problem has occured for me when I tried to move Ion to Gre. never when I convoy to Gre. it has always been in the fall of 1901... and every time I have checked and reviewed it...

if I ever get Italy again and try this same move, I WILL take a screen shot as it is BEYOND annoying...

whatever... i'm done ranting and raving... and I need to go simmer and tell myself repeatedly its just a game... its just a game... its just a game...

I have a complaint of my own. In a recent game, I attacked Vienna when I meant to attack Venice. That was annoying as well as my ally was none too happy about it. Can you rename one of those two cities to something that starts with a 'B' or a "Z'? Say Be Nice or maybe Zienna?

I think you're joining mdrltc? Either way I'll reply in your thread.

Babak: If you want a few of us can start a game directly to test this?

That's a good idea. Mod Team vs Babak, make it 300 pot.

Just kidding, it really is a good idea, I'm willing to join it.

Perhaps we could rearrenge the countries so Babak gets Italy, or not.

Right, well that makes 2 of us. I'll just start a game now and then when tested cancel it.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18365

That's rather biased of you Fig :P

what, the name?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=18366
Started this one instead to make sure Babak gets a place in it. Password messaged to you, then I'll just set it as unpassworded when he's in

A while back, when there were repeated threads claiming that errors of this kind of errors were occurring, I spent three months taking a screenshot of my moves every diplomacy phase. Not once was there a demonstrable error.

I think this is probably user error or the browser issue mentioned above.

The password you sent is not working for me.

There it is, without caps :P

Try it lower case?

Ah right sorry. Babak, the same applies to the password I sent you if/when you get it.

If you require another player for testing, I'd be happy to help.

Also, may I ask a series of questions that may help with the debugging. I agree that it is most likely a browser issue.

1) Do you play from multiple browsers/computers?
2) Had you previously entered to move to GRE and then changed to move to TUN?
3) After you entered your moves, were they saved or finalized?
4) After you entered your moves, did you do a refresh before studying them?

To the mods/Kestas, does the system keep a record of every save, or only the final one?

Every save.

see the thing about "its just a game" is that you spent hours thinking, planning, talking and everything ends up in the smoke...it's annoying 8) anyways, similar things happened to me before. numerous times on different occasions. I remember hearing things similar to this case in the past. Definitely not complaining, just supporting.

I'm willing to help with testing as well

from previous such threads, i think it's each one

idealist: "its just a game" isn't a reason for not being annoyed or not bothering to try to work out what as happened. It is an excellent reason for staying level-headed, that is all.

figlesquidge, it is not really possible (statistically) that someone could mess up an order by trying to scroll down with the input field selected the way the error is described. First, the option for Tunis is below the one for Greece, so you would have to scroll up to get from Tunis to Greece - but the submit button is below the orders, so you would scroll down to get there. Second, if you scroll in an input field, the page does not get scrolled, which is why it is usually extremely obvious when you might be making an error like this. Third, this happened four times - I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to make the same error that often (although you cannot rule the scroll wheel out because of this, since this is, after all, the internet). Fourth, the error produced the exact same problem four times in a row. What exactly are the odds of that? If they are high enough that it happened to someone else but has never happened to you, I think it's safe to conclude that someone would have to be sabotaging Babak's scroll wheel.

Haha, fair enough PM.
I agree scroll wheel isn't the only option (I didn't have a game to check the order in), but my point was more it really doesn't seem like it was a server thing.

So, if each save is, uh, saved, can you look at it and see at what point it went from moving to TUN to GRE?

We can't, but yes Kestas could - if he's free anytime soon.

thank you all for taking this discussion seriously - and to the Mods and volunteers who are now in the test game. we'll see if we cant figure it out. meanwhile, I will post the links to the games in question for anyone who wants to follow and answer some of the questions below...

here are the 3 games (happend twice in one game - so 4 times)


gameID=17437 (current game)
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=17437&viewArchive=Messages

gameID=13569 (anonymous game - read the global tab too)
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=13569&viewArchive=Messages

gameID=12120 (TWICE - pre-update gunboat game - read the global)
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=12120&viewArchive=Messages


now in all my games as Italy where I moved to Ion and did NOT convoy (4 others), twice I moved to Gre intentionally with Turkish support, once I moved to EMS, and once I actually moved to Tunis (so this is a real counter example).

to answer the questions abgematch asked...

1) Do you play from multiple browsers/computers?
no - almost always from FF, though sometimes from my G1 phone. I may have played from a blackberry on one of the older examples, but I dont think so. as for computers, i think the last two examplse were from this laptop, and the oldest one (gunboat-twice) may have been from a different laptop or even my parents PC when i was visiting them - cant say.

2) Had you previously entered to move to GRE and then changed to move to TUN?
hmm... good question. on this latest one, I may have very early in the phase. though I know that i was watching the clock go down for the last 30 min and that the orders were correct on my screen. on the previous two examples, I'm pretty sure I never put in Ion to Gre orders b/c I was making a Bohemian Crusher opening which required the build from Tunis.

3) After you entered your moves, were they saved or finalized?
Just saved. I am pretty sure never finalized. the one counter example however (gameID=13091), I may have finalized because I remember *thinking* about this issue and wanted to make SURE.

4) After you entered your moves, did you do a refresh before studying them?
no. i usually just save. make sure I see the gray check mark, then study the map or move to the next map. I dont click away until I see the check mark, so I dont ever leave the page when its still on the '...'

Babak if you have earlier in the phase previously entered Gre (#2), and then, later in the phase, changed the order you will still see the grey tick mark, and not the exclamation marks. I think it might be a good idea to refresh after making changes.

... and then checking to make sure your orders are as you wish them to be.