The very fact that this discusion is taking place shows how much attitudes have changed. 35 years ago if a man in the military had come out of the closet the chances would have been very high of being beaten to death or at least bad enoff to be hospitalized. While that risk is still there is much less so today. Being discharged is most likely the worse thing to happen. Perhaps in another generation homosexuals in the ranks will be accepted.

Corporations do not control the world. It's time for you to get real. Which corporations? And what are the methods by which they control the world?

No one group controls the world. There is just to much conflict of interest for that to be true. Which company controls China, or Cuba?

my question is...if you decide to keep them out, how do you even keep them out? how do you figure out if a guy is gay or not when they want to sign up?

good point imurk

thucy- have you ever heard of Exxon? How about the various insurance companies in America who make extreme profits scewing people over. How about the 2000 election? I don't need to debate this with you as we have gone of topic.... gays should be able to do whatever the hell they want to do, including joining the military

No doubt there are large corporations. To say they control the world is ludicrous though. If someone wanted Exxon to go away, it would not be difficult. The thing is that no one really wants them to go away. But a large mob could dismantle them; whereas a large mob cannot dismantle the government. If a large mob was stopped from trying to destroy Exxon, it would be because the government stopped them. Therefore, government controls the world.

Exxon has considerable influence on the government though

Of course gays should be allowed in the military, this is a stupid question. What has a person's sexual preference got to do with their job?

I must say I like the don't ask, don't tell policy. It's stupid to keep someone out of the military because of their sexual orientation. However, having a gay man in a unit could negatively affect the unit cohesion and trust of some of the more homophobic members. I'm not saying that homophobia is good or even OK but any military group depends on unit cohesion and trust. If having a man be a closeted gay rather than openly gay helps this unit trust then that's the way it should be because it will ultimately save lives.

@Thucy- I hope you did not misunderstand my previous post in this thread. I never meant to imply poor people are stupid nor did I have any intent of degrading anyone that is or has served in the military. I served myself and I came from a lower middle class background. I am by no means stupid but I am ignorant and was far more ignorant when I enlisted. I will never claim to know everything, but I will claim to know more than some others.

@LJ - spot on. It's one thing to speculate what attitudes hsould be. But the reality is that homophobia is prevalent in society to varying degrees. I had a good friend (he passed away seven years ago) who was gay. He was my best friend and we got along great. He knew not to make a pass at me and I knew not to look at the pictures on his computer when I was fixing it for him. But I would have hesitated to be naked in Gary's presence. Something in me still has a small twinge of the phobia when it comes to me being at my most vulnerable. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that if a hot naked women were in my presence, I'd be dreaming about her for many nights to come.

"But I would have hesitated to be naked in Gary's presence. Something in me still has a small twinge of the phobia when it comes to me being at my most vulnerable. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that if a hot naked women were in my presence, I'd be dreaming about her for many nights to come."

So you're the hot naked women in this scenario? LOL.

I agree with Draugnar. I too have a good friend who taught me more about my old business than I could have ever learned on my own. The first job I did for him I was uncomfortable around him because he is gay. We have had many conversations since. He told me once that I had nothing to worry about. If a gay guy ever hit on me it was for the purpose of making me uncomfortable. I have to say that as I have gotten older I have become more tolerant in many ways and less tolerant in others. I am by no means a geezer yet, but I am finding myself to be the oldest person in many of my circles. It was strange to have people cracking Geratol jokes on me. I guess my point is I do not like militants. I don't care what cause they are trying to shove down my throat. I am allowed to disagree, and I refer back to my earlier post. Someone got it right; don't ask don't tell is a good policy.

@tailboarder - I can relate to the Geritol jokes. I work in a marketing firm as the IT guy and only 3 people are older than me. Even the President of the company and the Corporate Controller are younger than me.

I once told Gary that the only thing I couldn't tolerate was intolerance, but he knew certain aspects of his lifestyle would freak me out, so we did NOT discuss his love life any more than my marrital relations. We both understood and agreed that those things were better left undiscussed. Beyond that, I was his soundign board when his boyfriend or family were on his case, and he was mine when my wife was in a particularly bitchy mood.

I understand. Bruce was quite insightful when it came to my marital problems. I guess he could relate to my wife's feelings better than me. I have been told by a counselor that I have some serious narcissistic tendencies though.
The more I read your posts the more I look forward to the opportunity to play against you.

I have played against Thucy and enjoyed that game very much.

i would like to say a big thanks to everyone who posted in this. the help got me an a =) gracias!

Excellent.
I am glad to hear that.
Sorry if any of my ramblings seemed a bit one sided but you did ask for opinions & I guess it worked out.

Congrats DJEcc24! I am glad we were ableto assist in even a small way. You should put your notes (it was a speech wasn't it?) up somewhere for all of us to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aotlEpmAFVQ

I agree with Draugnar. I would like to know...

i had a power point and i didn't need silly notes to talk about it. not even note cards. i just studied up enough for me to know what i need to know to talk about it for 5 minutes. but rest assured i gave credence to this forum in the credits.

i enjoyed that video by the way little speck