I have nothing against religion per se... More organised religion telling people that their religion is the only way. If i had my way it would be banned.:-) Spirituality is great, and as far as i am concerned, a better alternative. I truly cant think of one decent thing organised religion has done in at least the last 50years for example.

Oh I don't know, they do some pretty good jumble sales round my way.

Organised religion has great sway over millions, possibly billions of people. Imagine if the Catholic Church ordained that use of condoms was not a sin but a moral imperative, how many African lives would be saved from HIV? Imagine if the Moslem authorities demanded that all extremist and violent interpretations of their religion be disassociated from true Islam?

well as far as i am aware, Islam does not condone violence... Yet how many wars and deaths stem from religion? Hmmm... One need only look at the middle east, and the Balkans, for a start... Individual spiritality is the way to go.

Although one could make the case that religion divides people, it did a good job of reuniting Europe during the Dark Ages. Happy Easter everyone!

Easter is over in this part of the world.

Christianity did not unite people in Europe, in 1204, a western european army sacked the city of Constantinopol, the capital of the Orthodox Christian kingdom. They called it a crusade similar to the ones against Islam in Spain and the Levant. A holy war being waged on Christians, by Christians... LOL

ok, there have been religious wars, but also basically every foreign outreach or recovery or aid programs have been started or funded by religion, you cannot say that they haven't caused good.

We'll give you aid... If you worship like us. Why is it necessary to include bibles with food and water?

Why not? Missionaries don't generally [sarcasm;)] force the people to read said Bibles before feeding them. And they're actually trying to help, unlike most of the rest of the civilized world.

As a Catholic, I think that the Catholic church needs to move into the 21st century, and as stated above, another doctrine of the Church is no premarital sex and planning, that includes testing and such, I understand that Africa is different, but that is an example of how it needs to update itself.
Also, religion has offered the world MORALITY, without that we would not have a sense of right and wrong and probably would have destroyed ourselves.
And lastly, with the whole science vs religion, cant we compromise? Can't God have CAUSED the Big Bang?

yeah, even if they do give them their religion, it's not shoved down their throat and you saying that proves that religous people do help, that's good that they help, even if they are also sharing their faith.

And also... before we give you food, why don't you build us a great big, brick building with a cross on top. If you live through it, then we'll finally give food and water to you and you're family. (Until we leave for the next village)

not a fan of hierarchically structured organised religions. but i wouldn't be too quick to put the blame on them for Balkans conflict and various other wars that people say are caused by religion. I think if you looked into them you would find they are more socio-economic reasons for the conflict made easy by xenophobia and augmented by religion.

islam has no hierarchical pyramid style (unlike the catholic church) structure, thats why some imams can declare fatwahs against violence and extremism and other imans can promote it.

lukes- "basically every" ?
heard of the UN? Unicef? doctors without borders? oxfarm?
its true that a lot of them started out as concerned Christian groups b ut most have outgrown that infantile stage and are more mature now. but i detest aid groups handing out bibles rather than well making instruction guides.

putin, ever heard of HUMANISM? it is possible to be an athiest and be moral.
religion gave the world morality? thought pride was meant to be one of your sins

I agree with sean. Organized religion isnt about morality or spirituality even. It is about the leaders of each religion obtaining power and maintaining that power for as long as possible. Have you noticed that millions of ppl around the world would do anything that the pope says? He may be viewed as the most "holy" thing on earth, but he has huge amounts of power. And how can a religion be moral especially catholicism that doesnt even allow women to participate in anything...that seems kinda immoral to me.

I would like to repley to all of the comments that people have made about organised religion. First, i will say that i do not belong to any religion and any ideas that i have about the gods or the divine, are simply that...ideas. i have no proof one way or another that the gods exist, still let us not forget all of the wonderful things that religion has done for humanity over the years. Fellowship and community, wherefore has that vanished from our world? On this server all of us form a virtual community but it isnt the same as seeing eachother face to face. Religion provided people with a way to feel belonging in their community and it gave people meaning to their lives. Sadly as religion is vanishing from our world to be replaced by other ideas and ways of life, nothing yet has come to replace the funcition of religion in that it created community and fellowship. Also let us not forget all of the wonderful works of art that have been produced in the name of god. Michelangelo who painted the sistine chapel, or Johann Sebastein Bach who wrote all of his music for god. Bach's music is divine perfection itself manifested in music. Sure, many people have done awful things in the name of religion, the crusades, the inquisition, countless numbers of wars. but dont forget that people have done as many good things in the name of relgion as bad things. many people in the world want to focus on the bad, and forget the good, because that is what is easy. it is also easy to critisise the people who believe in organised religion too. But remember they are rational human beings just as you and I, and have the faculty of reason as well. They choose to believe in a way of life that gives them a purpose, that makes them feel better about themselves and their place in the world. And yes there are extremists within religion, but no more so than in politics or on wall street. I think that we should cut them some slack and let them have the right to choose how they want to live their life. And if they try to push their religion on you, remember too that you are a rational being and have a choice to listen or not. nobody can force you to belive in god. that being said, happy easter everybody!!!

I agree..religion should be a personal choice 100%, all of your own interpretations and choices for your sake only.

I agree that Organised religion is bad. It should be no wonder that people are leaving in droves, finding their own spiritality and beliefs... Not archaic like say Catholicism is... Oh. And i am supposed to be Catholic

Religion shaped humanity, and that's all anyone can say for certainty. One can argue that religion has been cause of countless deaths and terrible acts. One can also argue that it brought early human beings together, gave them a moral code and a fear of retribution and a repercussion for their actions. At times religion has made mankind forget about the real world, and other times has spurned great humanitarian acts to help suffering and death.

To say that the world is better or worse as a result of religion is to not think about all sides. It simply shaped the world. Good or bad, it was necessary for mankind to have belief in order to cope with the thoughts, feelings, and emotions that (dependent on your views) God and/or evolution has given human beings alone. To say that you wish religion had never existed is to wish that we as a civilization were completely altered, if not already extinct. That is of course, if it were even possible for our species to have progressed at all without everything that religion has given to us.

I know most won't even read this, and just spout their opinions. I believe that because, well, I haven't read half the posts above me. But this is my opinion, take it if you'd like I don't care at all lol!

Evolution and God, as in the religious sense of Organised religion do not mix, one is Science and one is Faith... As for good or bad. Humanity is now leaving organised religion in droves, and thats what frees us up to become better people. That freedom allows us to change not just our nasty violent self-destructive nature, but repair problems we have created.

Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people.

Religion is probably an inevitable product of a nascant civilisation seeking to understand where they came from and how the world works. In practical terms it has of course been entirely superceded by science. Morality of course isn't the exclusive gift of religion, but what it did was fill people with fear at the consequences of immorality (eg burning in everlasting hell). And of course the concept of morality was stretched to include lots of petty rules, prohibitions, rituals and superstitions which have nothing to do with conventional morality and more to do with advancing the interests of one doctrine of belief as the expense of others.
Individual spirituality may be based on fantasy just as much as organised religion, but at least it does not draw lines of separation between "us and them" - resulting in the people who are not allowed to eat pork on a Thursday massacring the people who believe that blessed bread turns into human flesh in their mouths.

I agree with noodlebug. Religion is not the cause, merely the tool. It is something that has origins rooted in peace and love, and if political and religious leaders can warp even that to pursue power through wars and death, what makes you think they would stop if religion wasn't a factor?

In response to Noodlebug

Religion DOESN'T kill people. Religious people kill people. =)

I find it interesting that you also despise the US...

Organized religion has set mankind back 1000 years. Good men will do good and bad men will do bad. But for good men to do bad requires religion.

The entire purpose of any organized religion is to stabilize a society. People will listen to the king if they think that god(s) are telling them to. Without religion, most people just show their own philosophy...

Stability through forceful or conditioned homogeneity is a false stability, hardly the "moral" stability a society might hope to attain.

Morality does not come from religion, it is merely enforced by religion, as an unseen, inexplicable power. One person can only have so much power, but a person with a God behind them is apt to convince anyone what constitutes morality.

Religion and science are unfortunately mutually exclusive. God may have caused the Big Bang, but in science, parsimony is golden, and if there is no need for any God(s) to have had a hand in anything; from abiogenesis, to evolution, to the lunar cycle, then why postulate the existence of one? Of course, science may not be the accurate representation of "Truth", but it's doing a damn good job of it so far, and if there were any way to approximate the "Truthfulness" of any model of belief, I would have to pick the one that lets us fly, enjoy central heating, and play Diplomacy over the internet, namely, science.

In the end, I disagree with the more rabid atheists, bent on destroying organized religion as well as simple theism. Live and let live, worship and let worship (or not worship). I don't approve of anyone pushing their religion (or non-religion) on others, and that is my only beef with organized religion. Wars have many causes, evil comes independently of religion. Moral vigilance does as well, and I don't care whether someone is Christian or a believer in the Teutonic pantheon; if they're willing to do what is right, then the rest is irrelevant.

Religion is supposed to be good. Those which weren't only exist in small primitive tribes. The major religions in the world all advocate good things, like forgiveness, righteousness, etc.
The problem with religion is the way people interpret it. Those terrorists don't 'believe' in the religion. They actually take it as a goal, a goal that has many obstacles in front of it. They kill to remove the obstacles, whereas normal people believe in the religion. They understand the driving motive behind the religion. Sure, they may have customs as well, but they are introduced to make the world a better place. The terrorists fight for the religion for the sake of fighting for it.