and annihilation even better still...!

And just to show I'm on form: yes, Tyrolia is Austrian, not Italian. Wrong century...

Annihilation might not be possible due to stalemate lines... am not an expert here but the Axis will struggle to build enough fleets to annihilate England as their fleets can be blockaded reasonable easily in the Med and in the North they can only build fleets via Germany.

I also think access to Piedmont would add spice to the game.

Just my view anyway... am happy to stick with whatever the powers that be agree and take the lead from the first game.

kinda rushed into it. thought it would be annihilation but braveheart makes a good point about england. i have asked the others about italy. italy going into CD sounds ok i guess. that means we dont need to wait 24 hours each time once its gone cd right? and i think then that italy is fair game for other countries. its fair as austria and france both get a chance to pick at it. ive asked our italy to remain in hold format for the first 2 turns while we quicky take a straw poll and decide what to do. yes if we make it the same that sounds good.

Okay, we will follow your lead.

Italy held for two turns (not years?)... at least. Please let us know what you decide after that and we will follow.

I am quite happy to see Italy up for grabs after a certain point in the game, but not to go to another player entirely.

This is the day for errors...

I just typed a message in my son's account! his fault for leaving the machine on the site and I didn't check.

Anyway, what he said above I agree wth entirely.

If Italy goes CD it shouldnt be taken over as no-one will have the password. It means the poor guy who can't play also loses his points... but it's only a 5 point pot anyway. Don't mind either was i guess.

ask my other players if they want
1.into cd, fair game for conquest.
2.hold for one year then flips a coin and joins winning team
3.independent agent.

waiting for others vote now.
asked italy to just hold for now.

Okay, let us know the result. I think we will just follow you so that the games can be compared. If the mechanism turns out to be flawed, it can be changed for a new round of Great Wars.

(I am tempted to name this thread 'the law to end all laws' but, well... )

As for victory conditions (provided Italy is left CD), I think most reasonable is a given number of SCs (something around 20-23), becuase of stalemate lines. And actually WW1 did not end up with annihiliation of the losing powers...
I think the safest choice for Italy in our "experimental" games is to left it CD. Leaving it free to join and change alliance throughout the game would be anyway an interesting alternative, which brings in "political" aspects, provided one could find incetives for Italy actions (first thing I can think of: Italy is the winner if it can grow up to X SCs (X tbd) or it takes one third of the whole pot if it can survive till the end.)

Hmm, why not a mercenary Italy...? I know that the alliance that gets Italy typically wins, but this is drastically reduced if you let Italy build on ly fleets. This also helps reduce the stalemate effect, as Italy's fleets will always have a say.

Or, implement a Switch territory. As in, a territory, that when occupied controls Italy, although this is a purely experimental idea. Perhaps a little too crazy.

But seriously, the first idea, where you have a mercenary Italy who builds only fleets works decently enough. It also keeps a minor piece of Diplomacy in the game, as negotiations with Italy are crucial.

well it looks like a slim majority of the players in our game wish for italy to go into cd/ or be on hold (same right?) sorry locke. we kinda rushed into this game without the thread discussion first.
so italy- no moves, no supports.

but can we support italy if its in cd?
as for winning i thin the rule book states 24 sc as a victory.

yea ok thats fine with me. i dont see a reason why you cant support italy's holds for your own gain. but im open to other thoughts

so italy can be supported by our units and italy sc are ok to be taken.

After the first two moves presumably because that's what we are already playing...

Italy up for grabs after two moves;
Italian held SCs/spaces can be given supports...

ok sounds good flashman