Make a deal with Austria. Usually Austrians are grateful not to have to deal with a hostile Turkey, because it means they will likely survive the first couple of rounds. You can easily coordinate with the Osterreich because they're a land power and Turkey is a seapower.

A Russian invasion is impossible without assistance from the Austrian, so an alliance neutralizes that threat.

Turkish domination of the Mediterrean is nearly assured with an Austrian alliance, which puts you in good position to at least get a good draw out of the game.

And just remember to stab Austria before they stab you.

*I'm not an expert but of all the countries I tend to do best with Turkey

Hey Al, you were Turkey in that live game right? I was Russia. I think you are wrong about the whole "Russian players will typically not understand the nuances of the Juggernaut."

Of course the fatal flaw is an Austria that is all cuddly with the Italian, but I find that Austro-Italian alliances never last very long if the Lepanto fails.

Yeah, my basic strategy as Turkey is this: Attack Russia, when Russia is finished (or Austria is about to turn), attack Austria. Follow that and you can at least get a draw, but Turkey is for the long game. I've always drawn with Turkey I believe (except for one time where I almost won, but France threw the game).

There's a few big things as Turkey.

1. Don't ever, ever, ever, let Russia into the Black Sea. It's much more important for Turkey than it is for Russia. Deny it to him at all costs.

2. Don't eve, ever, ever lose Bulgaria. You're done if you do.

3. You can't be friends with Austria long-term. You just can't. Italy and Russia are much more reliable allies.

The key step is preventing the Lepanto by convincing Italy to attack Austria. Italy will show his hand on the first or second turn, before you have a serious opportunity to do the same. From there you can basically go where you please; an A-I war and not allowing Russia the Black Sea will suffice to give you your choice of allies, which gets you out of the early game, and once you're out of the early game intact and with some growth, Turkey is nearly impossible to beat back.

I think it always best to befriend russia, get the jugg going, if that happens and russia gets turkey into serbia in 02, all good can come of it....austrias week and italy is probably a little stronger.....after austria is no longer a threat, you just have to make sure I/R arent working together

Fear of the I/R is what makes me hesitant of quickly kiling Austria

@uclabb

Yes. No.

Au contraire, the comment was not directed at you.

I was actually pushing back on your (in-game) proposal not because I thought you didn't get it, but because I had evaluated you as the most serious threat on the board. Based on my assessment, I was prepared to insist that you go first.

Alliance with you was inevitable. That bit about the Black Sea was simply part of my bid for Sevastopol. I wanted Sevastopol so that I could strong-arm you into honoring your end of the bargain. But yes, I was still interested in the Juggernaut.

And principally I was interested in testing your intellect over control of Sevastapol. You can understand how upset I was that you were lobbying to Cancel the game right at it's most interesting moment.

Why cancel an enjoyable game? I was having fun.

@Chaqa: Yeah, the last thing you want is to be stuck in between two large powers (fortunately Italy is usually weak). Though I believe a good strateg y fo any corner power (England, France, Turkey, Russia) is to eliminate one of the other corner powers and engulf the next closest power from two directions.

@uclabb

Sorry if I seemed a bit off during the game, but I was really, really drunk.

Testing my intellect over control of Sevastopol? Not sure what that meant. I'm pretty sure you were going to die pretty quick there.

As far as how to play as Turkey, the alliance itself doesn't really matter, the point is that the rest of the east has a limited amount of time to take you out, as once the west starts coming east, you are set. So the main thing that I think about as Italy is just how to gum up a potential attack on me and try to get France to come take Tunis.

@uclabb: Can you explain this last bit? Being FAR from a veteran player, I'm finding that I draw Italy entirely too often and I'm struggling mightily with it. The Lepanto is so, so, so tempting, but I'm finding Austria unreliable enough in most cases to make it very, very risky, and once it fails, I feel like there's very little hope of Italy even surviving the first four years, let alone expanding beyond 4 or 5 SCs. Why in hell would I want France flexing over Tunis?

Sorry FineRedMist, that was a typo. It should read:

"So the main thing that I think about as Turkey is just how to gum up a potential attack on me and try to get France to come take Tunis".

I agree with uclabb. The diplomacy, especially in the opening, is pretty standard. You need to craft believable long term proposals to each of your neighbors so that you come across as the best ally. With the corner position, as long as your neighbors don't all gang up on you, you should be able to survive until the midgame and make something happen then.

With that said, my first preference is always to attack Russia with Austrian help, simply because it gets me out of the corner the fastes. IIdeally, I take black and arm in the first turn, and rum in the fall. By attacking Russia, I can also often convince Italy that, in the absence of a juggernaut, it's in his best interest not to try . Slow developing Lepanto. I think it also helps to let Italy know early that you know what a Lepanto looks like, and that if he opens in one, you'll be a fleetto stall him long eenough for France to take tun.

If the circumstances aren't right for a Russian attack, the next option would probably be a juggernaut, but I honestly haven't played one of those as either turkey or Russia in years, so I probably shouldn't be giving advice on that.

And now, fineredmist, my opinion on italy: the openings that give you the most options are either the key, the Orient express, or the bohemian crusher. Going West can also work ifyou ccan convince both England and Germany to join in. Look those up and see if it helps, and I can try to answer any other questions.

The Key is the tricksy Lepanto, right, where you pass through Austria during a faux 1901 war? I'll have to look up those others. So, a tendency towards Lepanto might have marked me as a noob and screwed me with the whole board...lovely.

What secondary victory conditions are appropriate for entertaining myself before it's over?

I think the key to Turkey is preventing the lepanto. If you don't think you can do that by negotiation, you absolutely must move Ankara to Constantinople en route to the Aegean in 1901. It's unblocked, and Russia in the Black Sea usually does nothing to harm you if you have a good relationship with them. That'll usually turn Italy west toward France or, if you're really lucky, toward Austria, at which point you can pick a friend to help you against Austria and then turn on either Italy or Russia. If Italy turns west toward France, help Russia (i.e. use Russia to help you) dismantle Austria and then the entire board opens up for you.

And how would an almost entirely inactive and uncommunicative Russia affect the math?

That would screw everything up in almost any of these scenarios unless you can get Austria or Italy to go with you (and against the other) immediately. I've pulled off a couple of great I/A/T trios before, but it takes smart players in the other two nations and an incredibly high level of trust, particularly for the Austrian and Italian players.

Thanks Peter,

I think I can agree with what you're saying. What are the talk points with the other regional powers? I find your particular suggestions to be inappropriate given the (somewhat lowish) level of play that I run into, especially A/I. People on this web site simply don't know how to play Italy, so a weak Austrian problem will be further frustrated by the fact that Italy won't know how to react. Here is what I usually read from people during 1901:

From Russia: Hi! I'm interested in using the word Juggernaut as much as possible, while subtly signaling to you that I have no interest in real cooperation. Would it be okay if I parked one of my boats in the Black Sea? For mutual defense of course!!

From Austria: Hey neighbor! Can I please have Greece? I have no real purpose for it, but I want to make sure that you understand that I plan on WAY OVERPLAYING MY HAND. And why not? The Italian player is slightly daft and quite likely to let me get away with it! Hah! Total lulz!

From Italy: While I know that the Lepanto that you're discouraging me from using is most likely to be the ruin of us both, I'd like to pretend that I'm not going to Lepanto while...yep, you guessed it...totally moving into the Lepanto position. I'm smart enough not to directly insult you or completely ignore you, but not smart enough to exchange meaningful intelligence. Sorry bro!

I mean, how do I respond to stuff like that? I don't think that it's the tactical position that frustrates me, I think it's the fact that when I draw Turkey, I find myself effectively playing gunboat. I actually receive a *lot* of press from people when I'm playing Turkey, none of it meaningful. Help?

Play with better people

being totally honest virtually nobody that plays Diplomacy understands how to send meaningful press in the first couple of years

nobody has the balls either to walk away from the negotiating table or lie outright, so the prevailing strategy is to say nothing with a bunch of words to every player and play standard openings then pick a target and attack them and THEN start speaking frankly with maybe 1-2 other powers for the rest of the game while throwing out any number of platitudes to everyone else in the name of "remembering to talk to everyone all the time"

the best thing you can do as Turkey is to beat Italy's brains out with the offer of alliance against Austria until he accepts and attacks Austria, if you get this you're well on your way and if you don't then you're in trouble

"nobody has the balls either to walk away from the negotiating table or lie outright, "

Speak for yourself. I love to talk the first year and desperately promise everything to all my neighbors knowing I am lying to someone depending on the first year's activity.

I'm not speaking for me lol, I consider myself a straight shooter in my negotiations and observe that my style is in a small minority. It's been too long since we've played together draug but I recall you being in the same vein

@President Eden,

I think you're correct. Most of my lobbying effort should be focused on Italy. Italy should be the first person I message. Perhaps next followed by Russia. Thank you, this is the information that I needed.

@Al
"People on this web site simply don't know how to play Italy, so a weak Austrian problem will be further frustrated by the fact that Italy won't know how to react. Here is what I usually read from people during 1901: ..."

I have to say I found those summaries extremely amusing.