Honestly, I haven't seen that tactic used successfully, if it's a tactic at all. Not sure what to say until I see an example. If a player NMR's they're usually pounced upon.

It's the risk you take in not taking them out quick. I frequently scan the bottom checks to see if a CD player has returned if I have passed one of his units leaving me in a precarious position.

Where exactly have you seen this tactic used successfully? Link please.

If this is a recent "phenomenon" it's passed me by. If Al can provide a link to a single game where a player deliberately CD-ed, and then came back to win by somehow exploiting the position on their return, I'd like to see it. We would of course need the mods to confirm that the winning player was the same player who started with that power.

@Jamiet - I don't think the mods need to sit up waiting for us to ask them.

Al, don't worry about Jamie. He tends to be pretty aggressive when he thinks people in the forum are asking stupid questions.

@ jimgov: My point is, if Al only provided a link where a power initially CD-ed but then rallied, and won the game, that would prove nothing because, looking at the game, we would only know which player was in control of that power at the end. We wouldn't be able to see whether or not that was the same player as controlled the power at the *start* of the game, and who was playing as that power when it went into CD.

@ Lando - Why do you dismiss my comments? I didn't say anything that was aggressive towards Al. Once again you attack me on the forum without justification.

I won't sit here and take your bullying shit. The last time you took to the forum to attack me, I gave you an entire week to back up your claims, bumping the thread several times in which I asked you to provide even one example of your claims against me. You ignored me and failed to respond - despite being logged onto the site at least twice in that time period and commenting in other threads, thus clearly being able to reply to be if you'd chosen to do so.

I'm hurt by your baseless slurs and your hateful comments. Either explain why you keep taking to the forum to single me out for attack, and back up your claims with evidence in the form of links to me actually behaving in the way you claim, or leave me the fuck alone and stop attacking me in public.

@Jamiet - Maybe my sarcasm didn't come across correctly. I meant that this is bullshit and there is no way that he can come up with a link to a real instance where this happened successfully. Thus, no reason for the mods to wait patiently for us to call them in.

It's your own fault if you allow someone to take over a CD and do this or if you allow someone to return from CD and do this.

@ jimgov: No worries. I was, perhaps, somewhat distracted by Lando's latest attack on me.

@Jamiet - It's all good.

If it did happen, I would say it was cheating in that it was using something outside the game (the CD state - no different than pause/unpause) to gain an advantage. But I would bet it is most likely a new player took over and rallied.

I have seen players use NMR to their advantage a couple of times. But while this tactic can occasionally work to your advantage, mostly it just makes you a sitting duck. Going CD and then coming back is pretty much the same. I think it is okay. Just beware that seemingly dead powers can rise from the graves like zombies and stagger back into the game to eat the brains of the living. Beware.

This is why vDip implemented the reliability rating and why I'll be suggesting it to Kestas once he has a bit more free time to add in some larger features in addition to the smaller ones we've been seeing recently.

jamie - look to your first post in this thread. is that an example you were looking for?

there is no need to be an ass or act like you are of a superior intellect. everyone is people, man.

@Lando: Not really, no. I don't get what you mean at all. Nothing I said in my first post in this thread was intended to be insulting to Al, or anyone else, and certainly I can't see what you think was "aggressive".

Let's break down my post and look at what I said:

- "If this is a recent "phenomenon" it's passed me by."

This is simply a truthful statement. Al's use of the phrase "recent game phenomenon" is clearly intended to suggest that the scenario he describes has recently happened not just once or twice, but so often that it has become an issue. I haven't seen it happen once. Therefore if there is a "phenomenon" it has passed me by. Nothing aggressive in what I said there.

So then I added:

- "If Al can provide a link to a single game where a player deliberately CD-ed, and then came back to win by somehow exploiting the position on their return, I'd like to see it."

I said this because I would, honestly, I would like to see it. It would surprise me to see such a thing, and I would be interested to view the evidence. Again, nothing I said was insulting towards Al, and no obvious aggression, as far as I can see when re-reading my words.

Finally I noted:

- "We would of course need the mods to confirm that the winning player was the same player who started with that power."

...because we would. Looking at a finished game, you can only see which player was controlling each country when the game ended. Independent mod confirmation that the scenario met the conditions described by Al would therefore be necessary. It is not "aggressive" of me to point that out, nor is it insulting to anyone.

So no, I really don't get your point. Re-reading the whole thread, as I see it, I made no attempt to insult Al or anyone else, whereas you deliberately and publicly insulted me, in a way that was totally unrelated to Al's thread, and completely uncalled for. You are the one, indeed, who has insulted Al by derailing his thread, hurling abuse at me rather than commenting on the issue he raised, which is all I was doing here until you showed up.

I have to agree with Jamiet here, I don't think he was being "superior". You seem to misinterpret people's attitudes on the forum Lando. You do it to Jamiet, you do it to me, you do it some other mods. I'm not sure why you always look for a way to twist other people's words into the worst possible light, but I wish you wouldn't assume the worst of people.

How do I actually mute a user ??

Go to their profile and click the speaker button next to their name in the top left. You can unsilence them from your settings page at the bottom.

Many thanks

Thanks to all of you for your various and sundry comments. Regarding the matter of surprise game re-entrances, I would like to point out that the problem occurs most notably in open live games.

What I would be more interested to see would be a feature configurable during game creation, where one can block players from adopting orphaned countries.

That would be an interesting feature, actually.

I suspect this phenomenon is more based on players of a certain age having to stop for half an hour or so because mummy has put dinner on the table rather than any plan. It would be a rare situation where playing dead brings you any benefit. Playing the fool tends to be more effective :).

@Jamiet99uk, within this section: "If Al can provide a link to a single game where a player deliberately CD-ed, and then came back to win by somehow exploiting the position on their return, I'd like to see it."

I think it is the word "single" that changed the tone "I'd like to see an example" to an aggressive "I don't believe it". I don't know if that is what set Lando off or not, but it is what I noticed. I'm just giving you feedback since you asked, although you didn't ask me.

As for the topic at hand, I could see a CD country in a corner being ignored while a player focuses on an active enemy, and leaves himself too wide open to the returning corner country.

For example, Austria is out, Turkey CDs, Italy jumps on France to try and get into the Atlantic, leaving himself vulnerable to Turkey who comes back and breaks Italy.

But, in that example, Italy is choosing to gain advantage by Turkey's CD, focusing all of his forces on France. So if Italy ends up paying for it when Turkey returns, I don't feel sorry for Italy one bit.

@alderian - If the word "single" sets people off on the forum, they had best stay away. That is one of the nicest "tones" that I have heard in weeks.

I'm not saying it made it worthy of going off about. I assume Jamie and Lando have some history, but maybe not, I don't know. I'm just saying there is a different tone between "...can provide a link to a game where..." and "...can provide a single link to a game where...". The use of the word single makes it a challenge instead of query.

I believe it is important for people to understand if and when what they think they are saying is not what people are actually hearing. Unfortunately, these people seem to also be the type who will not accept any kind of constructive criticism from others.

Thank you Alderian for being far more specific than I can be, maybe coming from a different voice jamie will actually consider what he has written before he presses the send button.

If a power is NMR or CD, the opposing players can choose to defend against that power, or not defend against it. Why should choosing to not defend be a risk-free benefit? If you accept the benefit of being adjacent to a passive power, you accept the risk that it won't be passive forever.

@ Lando: "Unfortunately, these people seem to also be the type who will not accept any kind of constructive criticism from others."

In what possible way can you describe calling me "an ass" and "a giant douchebag" and "a child" and "worse than blankflag" as *constructive* criticism? Those are just insults. Especially the last one.

@Jamiet - I'm sensing a tone.

Yes. Me too. My point is that I don't think it's a "constructive" tone.

Some constructive criticism for you, Lando Calrissian:

If you are concerned about someone's conduct, and you want to give them some helpful, friendly and constructive advice in the hope that they'll listen to you and moderate their behaviour... don't do this by slinging words like "douchebag" at them in a public forum.

@Tendmote - that's just it, I don't *accept* the benefit of being neighbors with a passive power. If one player leaves, they screw me in leaving. If they come back, they screw me in returning.

I can accept that someone may have to leave if they're experiencing an emergency, but my feeling is that if someone is has left, than they've truly left. I wouldn't welcome them back. My growing perception, based on feedback from my fellow-players, is that this particular tactic is more of a software exploit than a sneak attack per se.

Basically I feel that you're either playing or not playing.

As with other exploits, the first person to discover it is innovative. If you arrive at the idea independently of this first person, you're creative.
And if you try this once (maybe because you're facing some senior players and loosing) than good for you, you're pretty sneaky.

But if this particular tactic is a regular feature in one's gameplay, then one would do better to work on their sportsmanship.

At the rist of having a "tone," I would love to see where someone used this tactic and won a game with it? Either post a link or it doesn't exist. What you are probably seeing is someone leaving a game and someone else taking over for them. No great and powerful tactic. Just part of the game. Happens every day

Jim, how dare you be so aggressive.

Lando, I would first like to thank you for rushing to my defense. I am after all an old man, so it's nice to see that some of the young folks truly have chivalrous spirits.

That being said, why not put our differences aside? I'm satisfied that each of you take your opinions seriously, but it doesn't seem that arguing is going to get us anywhere. Personally, I'm surprised to see the three of you go at it like this - I had previously assumed that you were all friends before reading this thread. Please consider apologizing to each other. Let me know if you think I can be of any help.

+1 Al, +2 in fact. Good man.

Having an option at game creation to block CD countries from returning seems like a good feature, even if there isn't a huge problem. I'm fairly new here, but in the couple games I have joined there have already been a few CD countries - there does not seem to be a great way to handle the problem, as if someone leaves early then without a quick replacement the game is degraded. However, if someone leaves later, after the initial power dynamics are settled, having a replacement could cause for the sort of uncomfortable position Al described. Leaving it to the game creator how to handle this seems useful.

Also, I'm hesitant to involve myself in any way with the side conflict in this thread, but I would like to offer a double edged neutral party observation: tone is difficult to read on the internet. Small things like including a word in quotes ("phenomenon") or just one word (single) can to some fundamentally alter how they read the tone. What was perhaps meant as a simple query can look like an argumentative challenge. I think it is important for people on both sides to remember this. When you write something, it can't hurt to think how others might perceive that, and when you read something, it is nice to give others the benefit of the doubt. That is my 2 cents!

You can tell if the cd was taken over or returned to by the bet size. If the country who took over has a different bet size than the rest, it was taken over.

@phil - Never ever bothered even looking at that. Thanks. Question - If someone drops out after the first year and everyone cancels, does the deserter also get his bet back?

I think it seems like a good tactic. If you don't finish a vanquished foe and assume that you will be able to get around to it later and it doesn't work out I don't see how you can complain later.