There wouldn't be a Germany without Napoleon.

@VN Without Olga there wouldn't have been any Kiev to be destroyed by the Golden Horde --> Genghis is only consequential to Her greatness and thus not really a great person.

Napoléon was way better than Genghis militarily: Napoléon reached Moscow. Genghis failed. 200 years after Napoléons demise, his institutions and most borders still survive in Europe. What was with Genghis 200 years after his death? Napoléons soldiers were actual peasants from bumblefuck (a short trip to the Périgord or the Poitou will demonstrate you this), Genghis had a huge army of well-trained cavalry men at his hands. Contrary to most of History Channel headlines, they were many, many people with an important place in Central Asia well before his ascent. And yes, he simply failed to conquer Russia.

@ghug: I'm saying that it is highly probable that without Khan you wouldn't have a Golden Horde, as he started the whole Mongolian Empire thing. The point was also that Khan did more with less. Also, No Germany w/o Napoleon, really. The blood feud was there far before Napoleon, and Germany was unified under Bismarck.

@X3n0n: Last time I checked, both Mongolia and France still exist as independent nations. The point on military is interesting though. Also, when have nomads conquered anything aside from with Genghis.

The point on military is interesting though.

They ARE the exception: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqcVro-3f4I

Bismarck may be responsible for the German state, but Napoleon is responsible for the German nation.

How? The Germans were a people a long time before Napoleon.

No, actually. There were German speaking peoples, but they didn't identify as "Germans."

Concept of nationalism was already around, all you would need if Bismarck still.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany#Rise_of_German_nationalism_under_the_Napoleonic_System

Yes, and I'm saying that you could have had such a rise in nationalism regardless of Napoleon. Just the rise of other nations states and their dominance would prompt the creation of a German state. However, there is only way you have the Golden Horde, and that is through Genghis Khan's original conquest.

The Golden Horde was the Tatars, who were subjugated by the Mongols, breaking off from the Mongol Empire. It's not necessarily true that their existence was because of Genghis Khan. The Tatars may have formed a Golden Horde without him eventually. In fact, Napoleon more directly caused the rise of the German nation than did Genghis cause the existence of the Golden Horde.

Vashta - militarily, Genghis had two advantages over Napoleon.

1) All of his neighbors didn't immediately declare war on him when he rose to power
2) His cavalry had a technological advantage over their enemies (bow had much greater range)

But the both of them were brilliant commanders. Both of them did excellent logistics and supply line management (though Napoleon's may have been more sophisticated). Both made the greatest army in the world through proper equipment and training. But I honestly can't recall a time after unification when the Mongols faced an enemy in an open battle, rather than in a siege.That's why I call it a wash.

@VN No, Temujin didn't start the Mongolian empire thing. And yes, I have many examples:

Hyksos, Hittites, Scythes, Huns, Magyars, Avars, Arabs, … want me to go on?

I encourage each of you to read Genghis Khan's bio on Wikipedia. In terms of accomplishments, no human can really match him.

Let me put it this way. Napoleon was born into pretty much the top local family in Corsica. He had military training and went to one of the best schools in France. He was a military genius. He also made a handful of major mistakes with his military decisions. One being invading Russia.
Khan was the son of a Tribal chieftain. His dad died early on and his mother was kidnapped. He killed the men who killed his father. His 1st wife was kidnapped and he killed the kidnappers rescued her and started assimilating tribes and killing their leaders so they would join his tribe. That was a completely new idea for their tribal society. The Mongols before Khan unified them and started taking land were the weakest of the regional powers in the area of northern china/Mongolia

Khan took a broken tribal society, unified it and then said society formed a massive empire the likes of Alexander the great. Without being sophisticated and cultured like say Napoleon or Alexander or even Augustus. Napoleon meanwhile had military training and education. Khans men learned only from captured prisoners and the people of their conquered lands.

isn't this over now anyways? 14-13 to napoleon?

No one adjudicated and their is still discussion about it so.

Well, this tribal chieftain (which was the equivalent to being a prince in contemporary Europe) was the son of the first unifier of all Mongolian tribes (which would definitely make Temujin the equivalent of François 1er at least).

He had to fight a civil war, and so had Napoleon. He went on transform Mongolian society and so did Napoleon. The difference is here that Genghis did not not transform societies elsewhere, whereas Napoleon did. This is not to mention the difference that Napoléons rule made for plenty of the general folk, the administrative foundations for technology he laid. Napoléon was a creator, Genghis a mere user.

Genghis: 13
Napoleon: 14

Napoleon made his comeback, coming home to his empire from Elba. After landing, he heard of the death of Leonard Nimoy. "KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!!" He shouted. Napoleon tracked down Genghis Khan and killed him. Napoleon moves on.

Remaining Historical Figures:

Leaders:
*10. Augustus
*19. Napoleon Bonaparte
*24. Alexander the Great
*28. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Artists:
14. Pablo Picasso
*26. William Shakespeare
27. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
*28. Johann Sebastian Bach
*32. J.R.R. Tolkien

Scientists/Inventors:
3. Alan Turing
6. Aristotle
*9. Nikola Tesla
*10. Norman Borlaug
*13. Albert Einstein

Wild Card:
*1. Buddha
3. Martin Luther
*10. Jesus
11. Rene Descartes
*29. Benjamin Franklin

New Matchup:

Artists: Pablo Picasso vs Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Note: Vash needs to update the brackets:
http://challonge.com/webDipGreatestLeaderBrackett
http://challonge.com/webDipGreatestArtistBrackett
http://challonge.com/webDipGreatestScientistBrackett
http://challonge.com/webDipGreatestWildCardBrackett

Able was I ere I saw Elba....

Mozart for sure.

Mozart.

Mozart

Actually i change my vote to picasso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGN5xaQkFk0

Picasso

Mozart