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WildX (0 DX)
06 Sep 12 UTC
join
everybody go join big swam
3 replies
Open
LegatusMentiri (100 D)
04 Sep 12 UTC
September ghost ratings?
So when do these usually come out?
23 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
01 Sep 12 UTC
Full Disclosure Game 1 is done.
I have emailed a copy of the press to all players involved in the game that emailed me their press. If anyone else on this site is interested in a copy of the 370 page pdf file, you can email me at [email protected] and I will send it out. I will wait 2 weeks or so to send the copies out since the players that played get first-dibs on viewing the material.
28 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
05 Sep 12 UTC
EoG: Manga manga
A cool game. Well done, undercover and jdog8!

gameID=98886
1 reply
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
30 Aug 12 UTC
Armed bystander stops ongoing murder
Since so many shootings are getting their own threads lately, I thought I'd post on this person's life being (hopefully) saved by a concealed handgun owner.
94 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
05 Sep 12 UTC
EoG: Three Little Pigs
gameID=98855 Lol, England made it into the draw.
7 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
03 Sep 12 UTC
The BASIC American Question
Are you better off today than when Obama took office ? Are you a college grad moving BACK HOME instead of into your first place because you haven't a job?
Job and Salary, college grads....
163 replies
Open
shikari (231 D)
05 Sep 12 UTC
Multiple Accounts
I think someone is using multiple accounts, what's the process for reporting them or whatever.
2 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
05 Sep 12 UTC
EoG: Ancient Med-60
....or, Mannerbroheim is a jerk.
4 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
05 Sep 12 UTC
EoG: Oba su pala
You outguessed me around Warsaw, you sons of bitches...
9 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
11 Jun 12 UTC
Official Thread for School of War Summer_12 Game 1
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=91053 for those that wish to follow along. Questions from the general public are encouraged as the game goes on and our panel of Professors would be happy to elaborate on our thoughts of why we think we're seeing what we are. Students and TA's are prohibited from posting here, however.
Page 7 of 8
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uclabb (589 D)
12 Aug 12 UTC
About the timing of England's stab:

First of all, as long as something didn't go terribly wrong, England's place in the draw has been essentially secured for something like 4 game years now. I can go into more depth about that at some later point if people have a question about that. So England should have been thinking solo and been thinking that for a long time now. So how could he put himself in position to do so?

When you are trying to solo, you will never have a numbers advantage by definition. (If you did, you would have already soloed). This means you have to gain either a tactical or strategic advantage to make a solo possible, and know what centers you will be trying to get. Let's start with centers. Look at the board in Spring 1906. You have just two armies, and have essentially lost the race with Austria to Munich. It would be a lot of work to get Munich unless something big changes. How about Moscow? This seems a little more possible, since Russia has a strange position and you may be able to bring Austria on your side to help. Having said that, that leaves you with, at best, Moscow but not Munich with a strong Austria keeping you from making any more progress in the east. This means that you almost have to get Tunis to solo, and probably a chunk of Greece (along with all of France and the rest of Germany, although maybe you can drop Berlin in return for some of Italy).

Thus, your goal had to be getting your fleets to the Mediterranean as quickly as possible, hopefully while keeping Austria in check. You did half of this. You got France moving on Austria, which was very good. However, you didn't capitalize on this. First, a very important skill in diplomacy is being able to "soft stab" and force them to work with you. With France committed east, there really, in my opinion, was no excuse for your move to Clyde in Spring 1901. Especially if you know that MAO was going to be empty, (at the risk of speaking in absolutes) you should have moved there.

Why? Unlike you, France did not have a stable place in the draw. In fact, that is a big reason why he was willing to overextend into Austria in the first place, to try to put some pressure on someone else so that he could be in the top 3. By moving to MAO without actually taking centers (just as you spent much of your time in English Channel), you can control France and make very clear that he is at your mercy. If he tried to come back and defend, you could just knock him out, and he doesn't want that. You still, of course, talk the ally game, but the dynamic shifts from an equal relationship to you being the dominant member, and that is important, as he then gets desperate and is more willing to make extreme moves. I think there is a strong chance that you could have turned this situation into a solo.

But you moved to Clyde instead. Now what? We still know that at some point you are probably going to knock out France, and we know that it is only getting easier and easier with each passing year. You also know that you need Tunis. At the end of 1909, Russia has stabbed Austria, and another opportunity is opening up, but not the one you took. The real opportunity is that you will be able to take advantage of your opponents' lack of fleets and take control of the Mediterranean Sea down the road if you have a little patience. Why? Well, Austria is collapsing, and a collapsing Austria needs armies. Had you waited another year, I guarantee Austria would have been down to only one fleet. In the meantime, you could even help pile on and pick up Munich, which would make Tunis a likely game-winning center. France has a decent number of fleets, but you can take all of his centers whenever you want. It's easy. He probably will keep his fleets to try to stop your eventual solo, but, and this is a key point, his fleets are not as strong as, say, an Austrian or Russia fleet. Why? Because all of his centers will be on the front, and so he will have to keep all of his units in one of his centers. This means there still isn't a fleet to put in, for example, Tyrhennian Sea, and Tunis would be very vulnerable. If you got it, you would win.

Now, the game is on a pretty steady march toward a three way draw. France is falling in a very uninteresting and (for you) useless way, and Tunis, Munich, Berlin, and Moscow are sealed. It will be very hard to solo at this point.

I hope that makes sense. I wrote it on very little sleep. Ask questions (I guess in PM if you are a player) if you have any.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
13 Aug 12 UTC
Really insightful post uclabb. +1
uclabb (589 D)
13 Aug 12 UTC
Thanks Tom!

The last sentence of the third paragraph should read "This means that you almost have to get Tunis to solo, and probably a chunk of *Italy* (along with all of France and the rest of Germany, although maybe you can drop Berlin in return for some of Italy). "
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
13 Aug 12 UTC
I totally agree with uclabb. I had posted much of those same thoughts throughout my SoW commentary about how England frequently gave up the possibility of a solo at various points. The first, as you said, was in Russia where he lost it since he refused to move an army over there when Germany was sealed off by Austria. He lost it a second time by not using the A vs F as a reason to side with Austria and move on France when Austria would have gladly taken the help. He has since lost it a third time because now F and A are working together and England's fleets are not in position to push him into the Med and as long as they control the fleet advantage, they can easily lock him out.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
13 Aug 12 UTC
SPRING 1910
There has been quite a bit of flip-flopping in play as of late and just as something switches up in the prior season, it switches again, but this time to something a little more stable.

For this season, I will pretty much just post my thoughts because I believe position is irrelevant. It appears that the three nations of France, Austria and Russia have banded together to lock England out of the Mediterranean, and it is my firm belief that this sort of consolidation was the best choice they could have made. Had Austria continued to be at war with any nation, it would have spelled a possible English solo. If Austria had continued to fight with Russia, France would have been alone to take on England, and Russia would have had the upper-hand (slightly) in the RvA fight, thus fleets would have been reduced along the line where they were instead needed. Had Austria continued to fight France, it would have meant at some point Austria would have been supporting English units across the line.

Here are the reasons I see what I'm seeing: Austria has backed off of Russia which indicates that there was quite a bit of conversation going on between the two of them. In addition, Russia supported Austria back into Munich. In addition to all of this, Austrian fleets sailed with French fleets to act as supports giving them the necessary units to at least hold down the line. This means that England will be attempting to fight the impossible. From this point on, I believe England will be merely scraping together the remainder of French territory that he can, but it will only likely mean that he is the top player in a 4-way draw.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
15 Aug 12 UTC
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
15 Aug 12 UTC
I totally agree with Tom on this one.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
15 Aug 12 UTC
Great post Uclabb, agreed on all accounts.
uclabb (589 D)
15 Aug 12 UTC
About builds:

It almost certainly doesn't matter, but I still think there is something to say here.

England: Your builds really don't matter. You are stalemated tactically, and it looks like you have convinced everyone to knock out France. Your only play at this point is to give Austria a reason to be afraid of Russia trying to solo.

Austria: Like I said above, the stalemate is locked. That extra fleet is gratuitous. You should have built an army to make sure Russia didn't get any ideas.

Russia: I wish you had built an army in Warsaw. Had you done so, (and I were your mentor) I would have strongly encouraged you to stab Austria and race England for the solo (or at least explore it and then come back to the three way draw if necessary). You could very easily have picked up Munich, Serbia, and Budapest this year and had a good shot at the solo. I really think you squandered an opportunity here.
smcbride1983 (517 D)
18 Aug 12 UTC
Bump
CSteinhardt (9560 D(B))
18 Aug 12 UTC
I'm a little bit stuck here in terms of what I should be saying because I'm worried about too strongly influencing the game, so let me try and speak as vaguely as possible.

At this point, as France is eliminated, the battle lines are essentially drawn, and the game becomes tactical. The end resolution here is going to be one of the following, which I list in no particular order:

1) A power will reach 18 centers and solo.
2) A power will attempt to reach 18 centers, but the other two will stop him, with both being a necessary part of the draw.
3) Two powers will find a way to eliminate the third and leave a 17/17 draw in which both are protected against the possibility that the other gets to 18.

If the three-way is sufficiently balanced, then it's essentially a draw. Why? Let's suppose that A and B gang up on C. Then, C will threaten to throw the game to, say, A, and as long as C has enough power to make that a credible threat, 3) is off the table, leaving B to choose between 2) and A winning a solo victory. Incidentally, this is one of the reasons that I think England should not have eliminated France. A better offer might have been that France should use his units to help England try for 18, and if England succeeds, England wins, but if England fails, France gets rewarded for his attempts with a place in the draw. But, in any event, if England had any sort of winning chances, simplifying this to the three-power game likely hurt them.

Having said all of that, this game does not look to me like it's dead drawn. Why not? Well, there are two types of centers in play in the game. There are centers like St. Petersburg, which England will hold with Nwy S StP against an infinite number of Russian armies (a Scandinavian unit or German fleet would be needed to crack StP) -- those aren't changing hands barring a clear mistake. But, there are also centers like Munich, which borders seven other territories. Three uncuttable supports for Munich thus hold it, but anything fewer and it might be at risk.

What every power on the board should currently be thinking is along the following lines:

- Which centers are completely locked up, and which ones are potentially in play?
- Given the centers that are potentially in play, can anybody reach 18 centers?
- Is it me? If I go for it, am I likely to get it?

On some level, this is about basically asking how things shake out if you run ahead a few years. Let's take an example and run through a little bit of the logic: suppose England and Austria end up fighting Russia. First off, can they kill Russia? Yes, probably they could. Russia does not seem to have any chokepoints where it can form a stalemate line -- geography is working against it in that regard (this is generally true; the smallest Russian stalemate line I've ever managed to occupy on a board was 16 centers, although I think there might be a couple that are slightly smaller in practice, and much smaller if England, Germany, and France are all dead.)

So, Russia's dying. Probably this would mean England gets the northern empire and Austria the Balkans and the south. The centers England is closest to, then, presumably are Berlin, Moscow, Warsaw, and then Sevastopol, and England is on 14 now. So, if Austria holds Marseilles, then England would solo if it wins the race to Sevastopol, while Austria would win only if it ended up with both Warsaw and Sev. As a result, England should be willing to try this if it's confident it'll get at least Warsaw, and thinks it has chances to pick up Sev (or, make gains around Marseilles). Austria should, similarly, be willing to try it if it's confident it'll get Sev and thinks it has chances to pick up Warsaw. This is a likely scenario in the event that both England and Austria are convinced of these things, and unlikely otherwise. It would also be a likely scenario if the analysis of E/A vs. R revealed that R would actually *win* that war, because then R would prefer the war and try to solo.

If there is no combination that leads to a sensible war to fight, the game will draw immediately when France is eliminated. My analysis of all three combinations tells me that the game isn't drawn yet, and that we might be in for an interesting endgame. I suggest each power do their own analysis - hopefully it will prove...illuminating. Sorry that I can't be a little more specific here, but I don't want to unduly influence the outcome.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
18 Aug 12 UTC
I looked at the past season I missed and I have a few words to say to each power:
SPRING 1911

England: I agree with uclabb. It looked as if the Austrian elimination of France would mean that France would have tried to throw the game in your favor...it didn't. Why? I'm not entirely sure. However, there's no way you can get to 18 barring someone else on the other side of the board doing something foolish, which very well could happen.

France: It really sucks that you were eliminated. If I were England, I would have simply allowed you to stay in as part of a draw once I saw that I wasn't getting past the line. I would have tried first to talk Austria into stabbing you while I held my ground to try to get you to be willing to throw the solo in my favor, and if that didn't happen, I'd call it a draw. I don't see a difference between a 3 and 4-way draw, and to cut a guy out just to whittle a draw doesn't make much sense on this site. There's not much else I can say about that.

Austria: You have a firm hold on the English position, although it looks like Russia is back at his old "crap" again with another cheap stab. I don't know if Ser was agreed upon or not, but I would doubt it. At this point, a lot of the power in stopping a solo is in your hands. I think you have a solid game, but no real opportunity to solo anywhere.

Russia: I dunno what's going on with Ser, I also think the Mos build was the worst choice you could have made because it's a full season behind any other location you could have built it at and you're locked out of StP for the rest of the game. If Ser was a stab, I think you may have well bit off more than you can chew. In an event like this, when you're not the top guy on the board, and you're as far behind the lead guy as you are, stabbing an ally is a potentially big mistake, and by big, I mean losing the game big. Several games ago, I had a solo opportunity and stabbed a guy I was working with for a long time. He turned to face me and gave another player the opportunity to catch up while I slogged through my ex-ally's territory. I made some deals with that old friend to patch things up only to stab again. I gained more ground and the other guy did as well. The situation got so bad that I lost my opportunity to solo, played on the defensive to prevent the other guy from soloing, and my partner regularly feared I would stab him again and threw the game. I lost with 16 centers. It taught me a valuable lesson that I had to learn the hard way. To me, this move was one of those lessons.
That said, if it wasn't a stab, and it was agreed upon (which I doubt), then I have nothing really to say.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
20 Aug 12 UTC
Sorry I haven't had time to comment in a few turns. That last turn definitely needs some commentary though, so I'll post my thoughts tomorrow.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
20 Aug 12 UTC
FALL 2011

England--I'll start with the positives: I think the best thing you had working for you this season was Austria. His moves to turn and face Russia will really help you out in this game if you can take full advantage, but I get the feeling that you had less communication with him than you needed this last turn. More on that to come. I like the swap-out of the fleet for the army in StP and your fleet presence near the Iberian Peninsula. Also, your movement to the BAL was another strong move that lends to the idea that you're not giving up on a fight. In your moves, I really only have one negative and that's that you didn't try to squeeze yourself into the Med or NAf this fall. You had the opportunity but didn't take it. This is the reason I felt you didn't have the press you should have had with Austria. As soon as the Russian stab started, you should have been on the board with him getting his opinion and finding out what he would like, because my guess is that you could have at least secured the knowledge that he wasn't going to help France back into Spa which would have given you the opportunity to succeed. If the game is left as it is, you're at a disadvantage to Russia because he controls 2 centers across the line meaning he has a 1-center leeway in taking the 17 eastern ones. When I play this game and I'm nearing a solo position, I check the centers I occupy and where they're at. I've had several Russian solos and each time I controlled several northern centers which gave me the ability to not need all of the ones that I may not get. As Russia, these include Rome, Tunis, Venice and Naples because they often require additional fleets to take and any fleets built in Sev take years to get near one of these locations. That's the sort of thing you should be doing: counting the centers he needs to win, finding where he might get them from and trying to either (a) get there before he does or (b) take the centers he currently has on your side of the line thus giving you more flexibility in making errors or giving yourself the advantage in the race to the solo.

Austria: You had a pretty rough ride this last year, you're definitely not out if you know how to play the cards you currently hold and you only have to disband one unit, and in my mind it's an easy choice. Those are your very solid positives. The only bone I have to pick with you is likely a misorder and it's F GoL-Tus. I believe you probably meant for it to go to the TYN because Tus doesn't have anything for you. When I issue my orders in tense situations, I save my orders a day ahead of time and come back to them after my mind has had a time away from the game. I then reexamine the board and determine what I want my units to do and then go through my saved orders. If one of them is wrong or has changed, I have likely saved myself from making an error. If the situation isn't that tense, I often save orders pretty late in the season allowing myself to gather as much info from other players before putting something together. I'm not going to bash your play at all, and I want to see how you play things more than anyone in the year(s) to come because I see you as the pivotal player on the board.

Russia: You turned a bad situation into something much better and I have to tip my hat to you. I had several conversations with CS as of late and I wasn't much in favor of how you were doing things. A lot of that has changed. This build phase you're going to have to make them count. For that reason, I'm not predicting any builds this year to see what you decide. Two of them are obvious, but I'm looking at Sev. I also really want to see what you do this coming spring. The biggest thing you did this season was to gain Tunis and Munich. Those locations were more important than Serbia, which was really the icing on the cake, even though it came first. I'm also glad to see that you used Gal to cut support at Boh allowing you to take Mun instead of using it to take Bud. Great job this year.

France--Sorry to see you go. Things can get tense in this game and while every defeat has part to do with someplace you failed, every defeat also has some elements beyond your control. I hope your next game yields stronger results and that you learned something from your TA. Good luck.
smcbride1983 (517 D)
21 Aug 12 UTC
bump
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
22 Aug 12 UTC
I think F Sev was a good call, Russia.
Stressedlines (1559 D)
22 Aug 12 UTC
game over.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
22 Aug 12 UTC
I will post some additional comments later on but I would like to ask the 3 remaining powers to answer this question if they would:

Each of you had a possibility of a solo at some point. If you felt that way, when was it, what do you think you did wrong that turned the game into a draw, and in this last year what was the tipping point in not continuing and trying to force something more?
Stressedlines (1559 D)
22 Aug 12 UTC
You know, there was some communication issues between France I all thru the game. He would log on only once every 2 days, make his moves, send one low level message about his intentions, so it was difficult for me to rely on him to do much other than what he said he would do.

Russia was the easiest for me to deal with from the very start. Even me taking StP did not damage our relationship, because, it was between England or Germany taking STP, and he was happy to see me there over Germany (although I think he would have been happier to keep himself in there..lol)

The VERY last Fall turn, I could not get Austria to talk to me about his moves, and if we HAD, I would have played my last turn differently, especially in the Med/Iberia area. However, without a word from Austria, I played it safe, and hoped Russia would continue for a solo.

I think my moves to STP and Baltic spooked Russia from the solo also.

As far as France and I. Let there be no illusions about THAT relationship. It was rough from the very first year of the game when i Self bounced, and it NEVER got better. A lot of my 'defensive play' had to do with the way him and I were talking. I simply had zero trust of him, and sure it slowed me down, and forced more fleet builds than I would have normally built.

By me building the fleets, I was basicalyl telling France "keep it up, and I will out navy you soon". that forced our peace more than anything else, the threat of a full scale war. When the chance to stab him came later, it may have been a turn early, although I am not sure it was, since France was going to grab centers from Austria had i NOT stabbed him, and that would have fueled a naval build in brest for sure.

I knew I may be blowing my chance at a solo, but I also knew that if i waited a turn more, knowing the Russian stab was coming (I may have had somethign to do with that..lol) on Austria, that an Austrian collapse there, would have certainly given france or Russia a better chance at a solo than myself, so I rolled the dice that the WORST that would happen is I would get a 3 way.

The relationships between everyone was interesting. italy and Turkey were very quiet with me, even when I tried to talk to them. Austria and I never had bad words except once, but for the most part we were cordial.

Germany and I did have a nice relationship, and the stab on him from me had to do with Finland,. and the destroy there. Him and I had lots of talks on that, and in the end he destroy finland, which someone irritated me, and his lack of attacking to take Munich back finally told me "if he is not trying to get a new center, then he is just waiting to die" so I helped push along his deathwish, and get what I could.

France and I. We SHOULD have been good allies, but it never really happened.

Russia was really my best friedn thru the whole thing, even though we never supported each other once, we also did not really attack each other, except for STP. I trusted him for the most part thru the game.

CSteinhardt (9560 D(B))
22 Aug 12 UTC
I liked two of the four Russian decisions this winter.
Magus (117 D)
22 Aug 12 UTC
I believe that my best chance to solo was in Spring 1908. I had just convinced England, whom I'd been working on most of the game, to stab France, and I was hoping that the sudden relief of French pressure would give me some relief in the Mediterranean, a stable position in Germany/France, and a chance to stab Russia and go for the solo very soon. Unfortunately, Russia's stab was extremely well-timed and I never saw it coming. After that, things degenerated into my being caught between two larger powers, and I wound up playing for a draw, at least able to console myself with knowing that I pretty much got to decide if a power had a chance at a solo for a few seasons if they played false.

England and I were on fairly good terms with each other the vast majority of the time, never had much cause to quarrel. His stab on France saved my butt, and I'm very thankful for that, even if I had to work on him for a good while to get him to commit to a war with France.

Russia and I were fairly thick most of the game, up until his stab in 1908, really. We began on a good footing given Germany's fairly aggressive Russian campaign in 1902, and Russia was willing to do whatever I wanted for a good while there. His character was such that I was quite trusting, and therefore did not expect his stab at all when it occurred, but after that, we were fairly distant with each other.

Germany and I began on really excellent footing, since Germany was very anxious to have Austrian favor to begin with. His constantly telling me to attack Russia while I could was a bit aggressive, however, so stabbing him made the most sense in 1905, especially given the precarious French position at that time.

France and I were mostly cordial through the game up until we realized that we both needed to attack each other next in the Med. His insights into the northern triangle were invaluable, and really helped me influence that a whole lot.

Italy and I were cordial at the beginning of the game, and for a while there, I was considering splitting Turkey with him. However, the fact that Russia was dependent on me to prevent a real German monster from coming south at that point, excluding him made sense, and he never really recovered from my stab.

Turkey, as luck would have it, seemed the most assertive in the early discussions I had with my neighbors, so after convincing both Russia and Italy to open anti-Turkey, Turkey became my top target. I did enjoy working with Turkey later on in the game, but we never really got things going, which was largely my decision.
Stressedlines (1559 D)
22 Aug 12 UTC
You know, when I moved that fleet to STP north, and people were talking about how i was flopping things around, that MOVE, was to allow russia to free up troops for the very stab. France, seeing the stab, drove forward even more< since I was sure that France and Russia coordinated the attack on Austria.

I really had nothing to FEAR from Russia, but I wanted to cause some Chaos in the middle, and hope I could slip into central Europe as some Savior. Almost worked, but Russia backed off way too soon, and then tried it again after 2 turns of peace.

I tried pushing Russia forward a few times onto Austria, but he knew I had a better chance than him in getting to 18.
smcbride1983 (517 D)
22 Aug 12 UTC
I think my best chance at a solo, although, I still think it was precarious, would have been in 1908. However, Tru ninja's commentary made me believe that he thought I needed to set up a stalemate line and draw. My TA was also being very cautious, and when I asked him what he thought he advised me to go in the direction of a draw. It was the safe bet, and probably the best one. I tested the waters again at the end, but, England backed out of a promise he had made to me which meant that my chances of getting a solo were next to nothing. I don't fault him for it, although he did swear on the life of his child, I hope that he had his fingers crossed when he typed that :).

If I could do it all over, I wouldn't have eliminated Turkey for another year or two and completely pressed on against Austria and see what would happen.
Stressedlines (1559 D)
22 Aug 12 UTC
I am going back to look at that press...lol I think I may have been drunk, which does nothappen often...lol

However, I know what promise you are talking about, and Ithought i said I will not support Munich to hold, which i did not,.

part ofthe promise with that Burg army on the last year, was my inability to get into touch with Austria, so I was in...liimbo.

Russia had his chance earlier, and then backed off Austria after the first stab.

There was a lot of backroom stuff going on, but with Russia in control of Tunis and munich, and berlin, I was somewhat shocked he didnt go for the solo
smcbride1983 (517 D)
22 Aug 12 UTC
Yeah, I was in control, but it was quite tenuous. You could have easily taken either Berlin or Munich.
smcbride1983 (517 D)
23 Aug 12 UTC
EoG

EoG:
Spring 1901:
Shucks, I am Russia. I better get to talking to everyone. I know I prefer the Juggernaut but someone always stabs to soon when the Juggernaut is run. I try to get on good terms with everyone. England is very open to communication and I pencil him in as a good late game ally. Germany seems amenable so I plan to take Sweden and share Scandanavia with everyone. Turkey suggests we bounce in Black Sea, which is par for the course in my experience, at least at the beginning of a successful Juggernaut. To insure a good start with England I decide not to move Moscow to the North. Austria wants me to bounce in Galicia and I agree. I also reach an agreement to take Rumania, which Austria is okay with and Turkey felt was sufficiently anti Austria. I talked a bit with Italy but not too much got going. He was so guarded in his communication I couldn’t get a feel for what was going on.
Fall 1901:
Everything went as planned in term of the opening moves. But, my strong mid game ally botched his opening moves. I try to get something going with France as a back up but he was hard to talk to. I started feeling very concerned with the I/A alliance. Italy continued to keep me in the dark about his moves. I felt the Leptano coming and Austria was definitely anti Turkey so I didn’t want to get into a vicious 2v2 battle in the south while everyone else expanded. I still wanted to go against Austria but, my indecision screwed me in the long run. I was able to negotiate a DMZ in the Black Sea, which I was happy about, and I really think I should have supported the Army into Rumania. I am pretty upset about the block into Sweden. I talk to my mentor who advises me to keep on good terms with the German and the German claims he will let me in next year.
If I could do anything over I would have sided strongly with Turkey in the beginning.

Spring 1902
Fuck Stockings! The German blocked me from Sweden again. And I totally screwed up by sending my troops in some sort of mad dash in every direction. I believe I still trusted the German, which was dumb on my part. In his support, good work tricking me. I have pretty much decided to go ahead with a 3v1 against Turkey, as can be seen by my build. I was a little hesitant but Turkey didn’t talk during the build phase so I built the Fleet

Fall 1902
Austria wasn’t talking to me so I supported myself into Rumania. I am glad that I hadn’t been fighting Austria until now, because, I know I really need his help at this point. I am talking to England who tells me he will support me into Sweden and cut Denmark, but he decides not to anger Germany and doesn’t come through with the support. And since France and England are dick measuring I can’t solidify a Northern ally, so I know I am screwed. I try to explain to Germany that he is going to create an Austrian behemoth by fighting me, but he does not heed my advice. Of course, at this point I am appealing to everyone for assistanceFrance and England are still at each other’s necks when they should clearly be working together. I am also trying everything I can with Germany. Including destroying Bothnia to show I didn’t pose a threat. This was probably dumb of me.

Spring 1903
I feel blocked in, Austria appears to be gunning for me so, I decide to support hold Turkey. I am actually fully on board to work with Turkey at this point. And, the block of Italy last turn was great. I try to convince Turkey to move her fleet to Syria and move Ankara to Smyrna, I wasn’t going to attack her .I was hoping that an anemic Italy would lead France to switch Gears. But, Turkey doesn’t trust me enough or doesn’t like my tactics so Syria gets taken. I tried really hard to get Germany to fight Austria, but that didn’t work. Had it, I would have continued to side with Turkey. But, with Italy convoying the Army to Syria, I figure screw it, and, On the upside I got a support from Austria so I figure he is back on my side. So it is time to join the winning team again.

Fall 1903:
On the winning team I take Constantinople, hoping for a build, and help Austria get a build, even though he offered to support me in, because, at this point, I need to get Austria strong and show him that I am willing to do whatever to help him win. France and England are working together but I know that England is still pissed at France.

Spring 1904
Fuck Stockings. England kinda pissed me off by taking StP but there wasn’t much I could do to stop him. Germany Takes Moscow. I am in super panic mode. So I devise a little plan. Since I see Austria and Italy fighting, I go ahead and offer to support him into Smyrna.

Fall 1904
Turkey and I support Austria to Smyrna. Everyone derided me on the thread for this move. No offense to Austria, but this was 100% my idea and I convinced Turkey to support him as well. I firmly believe this move, paired with the support to Bulgaria cemented my place in Austria’s confidence. It, paired with Austria taking Ven, made Austria very big. So now, I have someone for Germany to be afraid of. An 8 sc Austria. The other benefit is that I am hoping that Austria will be afraid to lose Smyrna, thus stopping his westward expansion I really get to flex my diploming skills and hope they make up for my pathetic tactics up to this point.

Spring 1905
Germany is starting to panic a little bit; he is trying very hard to get me to stab Austria. But, I know I am in a terrible position to stab. If I do and I survive it Germany will get all the spoils. So I take Moscow and tell him I have to strengthen myself before fighting Austria. And, I know that Austria isn’t going to get very big if he keeps that fleet in Turkey so I am not worried about the Austria solo at this point.
Fall 1905
Pretty boring for my moves, But, I think I pull of some of my best diploming. I convince Austria to support France into Munich. Oh glory, glory hallelujah. I had been trying to do that for several turns but he didn’t do it. Now that he knows Germany is his biggest threat he does it. And it relieves so much pressure off of me in the North. At this point, by the way, I am being continually derided for my play in the forum. This is, of course, without them seeing any of the press. I, meanwhile, feel quite proud of myself for that orchestration.

Spring 1906
Everyone wants me to fight Austria. I keep pushing back. I position myself in Livonia and I am not sure if I want St.P or Warsaw. The determining factor was what would Austria do if I got St.P. I figured he would want me to mount a fight against the North and if he got Warsaw I would have no chance of staying in the game. Not to mention I had already been scolded for stretching myself to a point that couldn’t be defended. So I chose to take Warsaw.

Fall 1906
Success, I have Warsaw.

Spring 1907
I know Austria is leaving Smyrna, which he probably should have done before so I decide it is time to work out my Austrian stab. Because, I can’t be much more use to him. So I tell Turkey about it so she can take Smyrna. I of course take Ankara. And move my Army into position. People in the thread didn’t like this move either but it worked exactly how I hoped.
Fall 1908
I didn’t do much. I have no idea what Germany wanted to do with the destroy in Berlin
Spring 1908
I work out a deal with Turkey to take Bulgaria and Constantinople to stab Austria. This had been discussed for a while. I position Rumania for the stab as well and somehow convince Austria to give me Berlin.
Fall 1908
I get two SC from Austria. My only regret is that I didn’t come up with the idea that was suggested in the thread which was let Turkey keep Smyrna and take Bulgaria so she could get a build that year. If I had thought of that and she followed through, I think my solo would have been signed sealed and delivered. Now that Germany is gone things get kind of tense with England in the Baltic. The Second biggest mistake I make is here. I told France to destroy western med. Not thinking about the fact that England would come in the back and execute a lovely stab.
Spring 1909
Bulgaria is out, I am in Galicia. But, since England stabbed France when he did I get a little spooked and don’t think I can mobilize fast enough to race England. I probably still could have but it would have been close. Tru Ninja’s commentary was the main source of my nervousness. Had I been playing alone I would have gone for the solo. My mentor advised me to set up a stalemate line and eliminate Turkey. If I hadn’t done that I might have still had a chance. But, who knows.
Fall 1909
Eliminated Turkey. Austria said I stopped talking with him. I am not sure what he meant. The level of press decreased because of the place in the game and the need to communicate, but I kept talking with him. He just didn’t log on often and rarely replied to my posts. But, we were able to solidify some stalemate lines.
1910
I convince Austria to let me into Silesia. I actually had no intentions of taking Munich at this point.
1911
The mentors were deriding me for not going for the solo so I decided to give it a shot. And hoped that a dyeing France would help me. Which he did. I got 3 centers but I was in no place to defend them So we went for the draw. Game over man, game over.
ODaly (236 D)
23 Aug 12 UTC
Contrary to Stressedlines's jab about my talkativeness, I'd sent him at least three messages a day through spring '03, and at least three messages a phase until spring '08. Though, yes, toward the end of the game I'd had much less time to devote as I would've wished.

France EoG:

'01: I'd negotiated DMZs with all three neighbors and figured I'd maintain cordial relations with each of them until someone took the initiative or an opportunity opened up. That opportunity arrived immediately with the bounce in NTH (which, incidentally rang alarm bells, thinking he'd originally ordered Lon-ENG and forgot to change the order for Edi). With that in mind, Germany sounded receptive to an early jump on England.

'02: Germany built a fleet, so I figured things would progress smoothly, but seeing him build three had me nervous. I asked for permission into ENG since I could use it to strike against either neighbor. Unfortunately, Germany had other plans for his fleet.

'03: I pushed on with my attack of England, hoping Germany's third fleet would at least be offering support. Not wanting to bog down in a stalemate up north against England's new fleet, I pull back and prepare an attack against the flighty German.

'04: The French/German border falls into a predictable stalemate, but I figure with a, relatively tense, alliance with England, things would begin to progress. England builds F Lvp, citing his recent orders as a clear message that I should leave ENG, instead of just sending a message.

'05: Sensing a quick end to our friendship, I opt to cover IRI in a bid to protect the recently vacated MAO. I'd rushed my other fleet into the med to pick the bones of the crippled Italian. Meanwhile, I begin trying to negotiate a truce with Germany in case my English relations broke down completely. A new fleet in Bre would make its way south while giving me a measure of increased security against England until I could more clearly determine what direction things would take.

'06: I begin pushing for England to help break the stalemate in Germany, promising him everything on the mainland except Mun and Bel. Letting him into ENG was the easiest way to accomplish this, and I figured it'd convey some level of trust and commitment.

'07: Belgium is secured, and I'm able to extend my stay in Italy for a while longer. At the time, the loss of Mun wasn't a huge concern (though in hindsight, it should've had priority). A new fleet was needed to take the fight to Austria, and since Mar was occupied, I didn't have a choice where to build. I also continued trying to swing Russia to my side and set up an F/R vs E vs A scenario once Germany died, which I figured would've been to my advantage, since I had a numerical advantage over Russia. Nothing more than a couple kind words to Germany secured the disband of Gas.

'08: I didn't have confidence in how well I could hold Nap, so breaking into ION would provide much greater flexibility. Come autumn, I'm fully extended against Austria, and England's recent apathy toward my progress hints of impending doom. I figured a game-winning stab wouldn't come for another year or so, so I continue on assuming I'd pick up a build in time to defend against it.

'09: Boy was I wrong. I immediately offer myself up to Austria, knowing I only had to stall England for a season or two to kill his chance of a solo. Seeing Russia's actions in Sil/Gal give me hope that he'd be able to swoop in to my rescue before Austria realized I wasn't going to just roll over for him.

'10: I try to sneak behind England's fleet and kick him out of Iberia in the fall, but I hadn't counted on his convoy. I resigned myself to my fate and looked at who had the best chance of making the solo. Since Russia was under no threat at the time, I decided to toss him as much help as I could.

'11: England and Austria had apparently discussed the draw, and helped each other kill me off. Deciding to lend my help to Russia wasn't in vain.

@ Russia: Good game man. You really earned your spot in the draw, seeing you come back from Germany's all-out assault in those early years.

@ Turkey: Rough luck there. I was pleasantly surprised you stuck around for so long at 1 SC. You were great to talk to, and had things been different in the south, I'd've loved working with you.

@ Italy: I don't have much to say, not that I have anything against you, but we were always distracted in other areas to really do much good for each other.

@ Austria: Like Italy, I'm sorry we didn't get to work together. You clearly knew how to work the game in your favor from the beginning. If Russia had remained crippled, I'd've done everything I could to assist you into the Atlantic.

@ Germany: I really wanted to work with you, but after three years with no help in sight, I couldn't rely on you any longer. Had you even loaned the help of one fleet, things would've been different.

@ England: I think we know where we stand with each other. I found it frustrating that you would so insistently read the motives behind the orders only when it was convenient. When nearly every message I get is either a complaint or a demand, it really makes communicating an annoyance and a very draining experience. You're a good player, but I dreaded checking your chat tab every day. I honestly hope I never have to ally with you again.
smcbride1983 (517 D)
23 Aug 12 UTC
France, i think you got the raw deal from Germany. He had one goal in sight and left you and England to bicker For so long that I think it was his major downfall. If he had committed to working with one of you, I think his est choice would have been you since I find it difficult to maintain a late E/G alliance. I tried to mediate your Relationship with England. I wish I could have read your press because the comments I got from you too were worlds apart in regards to how each party was acting.
smcbride1983 (517 D)
23 Aug 12 UTC
Ad to be clear, the blame is on me for not going for a solo. My mentor and the professors may have advised or hinted to it but te fact that I pulled back in 2909 wa because I felt England was more capable of getting the solo then me. Had France not disbanded in western med then maybe I could have done it. But I don't know why either of us thought that was a good idea.
Stressedlines (1559 D)
23 Aug 12 UTC
You know, the French disband of Western med, is what made me choose to stab him.

Maybe I would have tried for Russia, but at the end of the day, it was too tempting a target with no fleet to stop me from getting MAO.



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226 replies
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
24 Jul 12 UTC
+++Boyz of Summer 2012+++
New Tourney 24hr phase 5 games 5 D WTA 3 x GB 1xPublic/1xFull Press.....
182 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Sep 12 UTC
"*Blank* Fundamentalism," "The Media," and Other Double Standards
When it's MSNBC/CNN/the BBC/ABC, etc, it's "The Media," always "out to get" the Right and praise the Left--but then, when it's FOX, it's "Fair and Balanced."
When it's "Atheist Fundamentalism" (someone who holds this view, please, tell me what you mean by it) it's to be stopped--but make them Christian Fundamentalists, and suddenly, apologists crop up everywhere...why the double standard?
66 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
20 Aug 12 UTC
FANTASY FOOTBALL!
All right....who is setting up a league...If nobody volunteers, I'll set one up on Yahoo. I'm taking names...and *will* be kicking ass. To make it interesting...anyone want to do For $ league?
164 replies
Open
piping_piper (363 D)
04 Sep 12 UTC
EoG - WTA-GB-161
gameID=98800

What was with players just wanting to give up? The game was totally salvageable after England missed the first turn and even he realized it.
2 replies
Open
Buddamoose (427 D)
04 Sep 12 UTC
Gunboat-365 EOG
3 replies
Open
NKcell (0 DX)
03 Sep 12 UTC
Video chat option?
What do you think guys? Sometimes writing a long message to another person just doesn't fit well...it's cumbersome. Would anyone else think that adding a google+ or Skype video chat option to chat games would be a good idea?
8 replies
Open
thatwasawkward (4690 D(B))
02 Sep 12 UTC
EOG: Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes-2
gameID=93483

Good game to everyone involved.
4 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
04 Sep 12 UTC
EoG: 1740 Batavia massacre
Conclusion: Nudging Warshaw doesn't work... or, there are only so many units that can support Munich. Well done, ThaHunters. An admirable effort, Decima Legio. Too bad for the CD's.
2 replies
Open
panagiotis1285 (347 D)
04 Sep 12 UTC
i realy need some help!
in this game: gameID=98338#gamePanel i play with turkey.
in my last turn i tried to attack via convoy from con to rumania and support move from sevastopol.
in the thread http://webdiplomacy.net/datc.php#section6 , 6.f.3 to be specific it says that that move is ok , but in the game it failed! Can anyone help me out?
7 replies
Open
Dorian Gray (164 D)
02 Sep 12 UTC
Delete my account
Hi, does anyone know how I can delete my account?
18 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
31 Aug 12 UTC
GOP Uses Teleprompter to Conduct Live Vote on Rules Change
http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/gop-uses-teleprompter-to-count-votes
42 replies
Open
Vikesrussel (839 D)
02 Sep 12 UTC
plz tell me why
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=98093&msgCountryID=0
Im france vs Germany.
It should be a push. or I get Belgium . Plz explain how I lost the fight.
10 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
01 Sep 12 UTC
Presidential Knife Melee
http://faceintheblue.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/in-a-mass-knife-fight-to-the-death-between-every-american-president-who-would-win-and-why/

So go at it
49 replies
Open
apfel (100 D)
03 Sep 12 UTC
Hey, how can I delete my account?
I cannot find it... :)
9 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
03 Sep 12 UTC
Obi's hero on sports
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/02/04/fool-s-gold.html
2 replies
Open
Spring War-8
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=98646

What the hell happened, Italy?
11 replies
Open
Fortress Door (1837 D)
03 Sep 12 UTC
My First Apperance on a Black List
I just got my name on a player's profile black list. Thanks thatonekid!!! I feel like an offical troll now >:}
4 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
02 Sep 12 UTC
EoG: Mojibake
Well, if that wasn't the best stab I ever made! gameID=98618
15 replies
Open
Skittles (1014 D)
03 Sep 12 UTC
EoG: WTA gunboat - 50 bet
3 replies
Open
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