Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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svenson (101 D)
02 Aug 10 UTC
Religion
This is not meant to be a religion bashing or promoting thread. Just meant to be a intellectual discussion on why people believe what they believe.
93 replies
Open
Miro Klose (595 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Homosexuality is no choice
I am confused how much religious and far right propaganda sneaks into the forum.
42 replies
Open
_Beau_ (212 D)
09 Aug 10 UTC
Unpausing game
Could an admin please unpause game 33847? We agreed to a pause for one week, which has passed, but one player hasn't returned.
1 reply
Open
baumhaeuer (245 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Whatever happened to Stukus or Kaptain Kool?
They haven't shown up on the forum for a while.
5 replies
Open
Miyazaki (0 DX)
08 Aug 10 UTC
New World Diplomacy Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35377

Hey all, I've started a new World Diplomacy IX game - please join! Thanks :)
3 replies
Open
Jeffy (100 D)
09 Aug 10 UTC
University of south Florida bulls
Usf will beat uf in football
7 replies
Open
The Czech (39951 D(S))
09 Aug 10 UTC
wta gunboat starts in 10 min
gameID=35435
if it doesn't fill it's nighty-night for the czech
1 reply
Open
JECE (1248 D)
02 Aug 10 UTC
Settlement Fight
Hello, a friend of mine launched a new game today: www.settlementfight.com. Check it out!

(His website is www.greatplay.net. I also reccomend it.)
100 replies
Open
zscheck (2531 D)
31 Jul 10 UTC
Most Valuable non-SC on the map:
Vote now!!
50 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Aug 10 UTC
Ghost-Rating Game Challenge
If you'd like to play, post your interest below along with your August GR and desired paramters. Sign-up will end Monday the 9th.
214 replies
Open
DJEcc24 (246 D)
06 Aug 10 UTC
The highschool diplomacy players
Yes i am in highschool and would be interested in perhaps playing an all highschool player diplomacy game. Perhaps we can come up with some funky way of playing like our talking has to be in pig latin or somethin. Probably not something stupid like that though.
72 replies
Open
centurion1 (1478 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
how to open a ganes diplomatic channels
Just finished a game recently And want people to know how NOT to start off a relationship. You do NT make demands and tell people where to move. For example if I'm France I do not go to Germany you move here and there. Its very annoying and is not smart This demand things like that of people
11 replies
Open
martinck1 (4464 D(S))
08 Aug 10 UTC
Another Ghost Rating Challenge - Go On, You Know You Want To
Is anyone up for a second GRC game? I haven't played with lots of people here, which would be great if anyone else is up for it - say top 200? First 7 to sign up play?

109 martinck1 (100-500, WTA only, anon, 36hours - 2 days)
2 replies
Open
terry32smith (0 DX)
08 Aug 10 UTC
LIve - Battle of the Best - Starts @ 12:55pmPST
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35409
0 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
08 Aug 10 UTC
Strat's noncontroverial thread


Puppies are cute!
If you disagree, tell me why - then post something *you* think no one can disagree with...
27 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
07 Aug 10 UTC
Gunboaters Anonymous
See inside...
15 replies
Open
jcbryan97 (134 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Live Gunboat 101bet WTA
Live Gunboat 101bet WTA

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35400
1 reply
Open
Conservative Man (100 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Conservative Man Weekly
Someone suggested that I confine my posts to one thread. I'm not going to do that, but I will confine the threads I start to Conservative Man Weekly threads. (Most of the time)
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Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
I would have to be persuaded as to why this is a better system. To me, currency just provides an easier means to barter. Instead of trading a rake for a shovel, I just sell my rake for money and buy a shovel. What is the benefit to not using currency as a "middle man"

As far as anarchy, this would be the only system to work as people would not be able to have an agreed upon currency. But as you know, I don't think anarchy is a viable system ( kind of ironic to call it a system, but I couldn't think of another word that worked)
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Anyway, this is my thread, and I want to change the topic to something I'm considering: The barter economy. There's no cash or anything. People (Or companies) make products and trade them for other products. There's an incentive to work, nothing to hurt economic production, so it's a great society. (If you suscribe to anarchy, but that's another debate) Does everyone at least agree that if anarchy could work (which I of course think it can), then this is a good system?"

Money is just a part of barter, in the form of a redeemable coupon. Basically, you do your part of the trade now, and can call in the favour later.

Whence your aversion to money?
@Tom: But why does their need to be a middle man?

@Ghost: "Whence your aversion to money?" I don't like money because money = capitalism, and I don't like capitalism because it exploits the common person.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Money is just a part of barter, in the form of a redeemable coupon. Basically, you do your part of the trade now, and can call in the favour later.

Whence your aversion to money? "


Those are my thoughts as well. There does not need to be a middle man but it sure as hell makes things easier. And money does not equal capitalism. Pretty much all forms of government use money.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
"I don't like money because money = capitalism, and I don't like capitalism because it exploits the common person."

Money = capitalism?

wtf? A barter economy without any money is capitalist. Capitalism is any economic system in which the means of production are privately owned.

Furthermore, a communist system can exist with money, or some other voucher.

Finally, what do you mean by, "it exploits the common person"
@Tom: Why would a middle man make things easier? It just makes things more complicated. With bartering, you set your own price, with respect to the other person, so you can both get what you want for what you value it.

@Ghost: There'd be nothing privately owned in my system, because there's no one to enforce property rights.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Why would a middle man make things easier? It just makes things more complicated. With bartering, you set your own price, with respect to the other person, so you can both get what you want for what you value it."

Because what if I want a chicken and he wants a pig, but all that I have is a cow? In your system this would present problems but with currency, I simply sell the cow for money, buy the chicken, and then the other guy uses that money to buy a pig. Everyone is happy.

Plus, with money, you can sell something now, and hold onto the money until you need it. While this can still be done somewhat in a barter system (trade for something and then store it somewhere) it is much easier with currency.
@Tom: Find someone who wants a cow. Duh.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
But what if they don't have a chicken??
Ah ha! I've found the article about this I was looking for: http://www.fr33agents.com/2875/sound-money-and-schoolyard-politics/
@Tom: Then find someone that has a chicken and want a cow. Read my article for more info.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
Another example: I am a carpenter. I specialize in furniture and live in a fairly rural area. 9/10 people who I build furniture for are farmers. So instead of getting paid money to spend on what I please, I get 50 pounds of potatoes. Yay...
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Then find someone that has a chicken and want a cow. " Doesn't this prove the point that money is useful? It creates a means where I don't have to find someone who both wants a cow and has a chicken, instead I just have to find someone who wants a cow, and someone else who wants a chicken.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
oops, that should be, "and someone else who *has* a chicken"
@Tom: Then trade those potatoes away. And in the currency system, you have to find 2 people. In mine, you have to find one. And in mine, there would be tradinf companies, so it would be as easy to find people to trade with as it is to buy and sell stuff now.
And please, read the article.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
08 Aug 10 UTC
"And in the currency system, you have to find 2 people. In mine, you have to find one."

Are you really this f*king stupid? In a currency system, if you happen to find someone who wants what you have, and has what you want, then you don't have to use money. You can simply trade.

These trade-in companies, how would they work? They would just end up with what society doesn't want.
They'd be companies like we have today, but with no owner, and instead of selling for stuff they'd trade for stuff, and give it to their workers. (They'd also generally be small companies)
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
08 Aug 10 UTC
So instead of just getting money for my services, I get a bunch of potatoes that I then take to one of these companies, where I trade in (if someone is willing to trade for potatoes and if they have items that I need or want - like a nice watch).

This certainly does not seem like a better system than currency mainly due to the fact that is much more difficult. Money is just a way to barter without time constraints (you can sell something and use the money to buy something else months apart) and with multiple people (you can sell potatoes to someone and get money to buy a watch from someone different )
killer135 (100 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Do any of you actually even play diplomacy?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35365
Miyazaki (0 DX)
08 Aug 10 UTC
killer +10
Miyazaki (0 DX)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Always so many people chatting away in the forum but then so difficult to get a full game, and then to get all the players to play out the game before leaving.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
08 Aug 10 UTC
Sorry killer, I don't much like live games with talking. Too stressful for me.
killer135 (100 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Seems to me you could post your topics on a forum that's not on a diplomacy site, or you could also play diplomacy.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35365
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
08 Aug 10 UTC
I'm playing 4 games right now. I'll even take you up on a non-live game if you like.
@Tom: But money leads to exploitation of workers. It's harder to do that in the barter system. And since you seem to be refusing to read the article, I have copied and pasted it for you:

Economics is not rocket science. In fact, most everyone learns the basics of economics when they’re children. It’s quite simple, really, like math. If you have something I want and I have something you want, we can trade. We’re both happy. That’s really about it. Oh, sure, there are subtleties involved and other considerations to take into account, but those are really more about psychology and human behavior rather than economics. At its most basic level, economics is simply about how one acquires stuff.

Let’s say, for instance, that we’re two kids in a schoolyard. You have a small bouncy ball that I want. Sure, I could try to knock you down and take it from you if I was a bigger and stronger kid than you, but we all know that’s not very nice. That’s not a very good way to make friends. Not too many people like a bully. It’s also not very good economics. I might be happy, but you’re not going to be. We’ll call this theft. I think it’s safe to say that it’s more or less universally accepted that theft is wrong and those who engage in such practices need to stopped, punished and taught that theft is not acceptable no matter how big and strong one is.

Suppose then, that I decide to go about trying to obtain the ball in a more civil manner. I check in my pocket and find I have some jacks. So I offer you one in exchange for the ball. You’re not entirely certain about the trade, so I offer you two. You accept and now we’re both happy. Simple. One plus one equals two.

Now let’s make things a little more complicated. Little Jimmy has been watching us and wants to know what’s been going on. He comes over and sees your ball. Suddenly, he wants to trade for it too. He looks at what I’m offering and notices that my jacks are a little worn and slightly corroded. His are nice and new and shiny. It’s obvious that you, being the only one in the schoolyard with a small bouncy ball can now determine for yourself which person you want to trade with, if either, and the amount of jacks you can ask for. It’s not quite as simple as earlier, but it’s still voluntary and two of the three people are going to end up happy.

Now let’s go even further. Little Suzy has noticed three boys gathered together and wonders what it’s all about. She comes over and sees the colorful little ball and has decided she wants it too. It turns out she has candy to trade. Well, who wouldn’t trade a colorful little rubber ball for some sweet candy? The boys with the jacks are sweating it now as they dig in their pockets for more neat stuff to try to win the ball, and maybe even some candy. Things have become a little more complicated, but everyone’s more or less acting civilly toward one another and no one’s going to trade something for something else they don’t want.

Well, let’s say this goes on for awhile. Other children show up with marbles, more candy, more rubber bouncing balls, jacks, dice, cards, matchbox cars, all kinds of things to trade. There’s now a regular smorgasbord of trading going on. Everyone’s trying to find something to trade and something to trade for. It might look a little chaotic, but all the kids are more or less satisfied with the deals they’re getting. Some might be looking to trade up and get something to trade for something else, but others are getting exactly what they want and walking away. They are doing what kids do. And they are deciding for themselves what they want to receive and what they are willing to give up. Most of them are going to be happy with their trades, even those who decide to simply keep what they have and maybe try to trade again tomorrow.

Ah, but now a shadow creeps onto the schoolyard. He sees the large gathering of kids, and he doesn’t necessarily like what’s going on. He looks in his own pocket and finds that he doesn’t have much the other kids would want, and he smirks. He doesn’t think it’s very fair. Then he smiles. He realizes that he has something the other kids don’t have. He has his size and his muscles. He’s been held back a couple of years and he’s the biggest and strongest kid at school. He’s quite intimidating. We’ll call him Dick.

Dick has a pocket full of toothpicks and an idea. He marches over to the gathering determined to get a piece of the action. He quickly assesses the situation and makes the announcement that the students are no longer allowed to trade amongst themselves without his approval. There is too many of them crying that things are unfair. He is there to make sure that trade is kept as fair as possible. He is going to take all the stuff and in exchange he will give the kids an amount of toothpicks depending on the stuff they have. Only the kids he decides will trade in a fair manner will be able to trade the other stuff for the toothpicks. He will then allow the kids to use the toothpicks to get back their stuff and to “buy” other stuff. But, they’re not just regular toothpicks he’s giving out, they’re special toothpicks colored in a way only he can color them, with marks only he can make because he wants to be certain he’s the only one who can give out the toothpicks.

You would think the rest of the kids would just walk away at this point and take their fair trade somewhere else, but there’s a problem. What I neglected to tell you about Dick is that he hangs out with a few other big kids after school and they happen to know that if they don’t do as he says, it’ll be more than him they have to worry about. They know they’ll get beat up. These kids are scared. They know that defying Dick is not a smart thing to do if they want to avoid a beating. Most reluctantly give into his demands and go along to get along, despite how badly they may feel about themselves for not having the guts to stand up to Dick. He takes note of those who do manage to sneak away and avoid him, or those who do speak up. He’ll get his retribution on them soon and everyone will know what happened when they see the kid’s bruises. They’ll all certainly fall into line after that.

Now no one is happy, except for maybe Dick and his goons. The kids all walk away from the gathering grumbling harshly with their pockets filled with mostly worthless toothpicks. Dick has all the good stuff. They are hoping that they’ll be able to get their stuff back, but they are filled with uncertainty. They are simply too small to do anything about it if Dick decides to be a dick and keep the stuff. Their trading frenzy, and hence their prosperity, has come to an end.

I have been accused of being a gold bug, of wanting to reinstate a gold standard back into our monetary system. This is not necessarily true. While I believe that a gold standard would be better than the current fiat system that we have, I don’t necessarily believe that it would be the best way to go. I understand that a gold standard would have its faults. It has been pointed out to me, for instance, that the vast majority of the gold is likely held by the same moneyed elite that are currently in charge of the present world wide financial system. I think this is likely so and I think that they can and do manipulate the gold market. The same is likely true of silver. I’m not so certain about copper, palladium, and platinum but likely even those metals, lesser used in terms of currency, are likely controlled by the same elite controlling everything else.

That’s why I’m in favor of repealing legal tender laws. The only reason Federal Reserve Notes are so widely accepted is because of these laws. They basically made it illegal for merchants to accept anything else in this country in exchange for their goods and services. I think that competition in money would be a good thing. Anyone could put money into the system and it would be up to the merchants to determine what kind of money they’d want to accept. The market would be the governing body. Given such a system, it wouldn’t take long before sound money, money that was backed by some sort of real commodity such as gold or silver, would quickly become the most widely accepted money. Fiat currencies that are backed by nothing and printed at whim would soon fade into our memories like a nightmare fades in the morning light.

To you who think that fiat money is such a good thing and that a gold or silver standard is too quaint an antiquity, I would love to see what you would do if legal tender laws were repealed and we were allowed to trade in whatever kind of notes or specie we wanted. I have the feeling that if you kept your fiat money and I chose to use gold or silver specie or some other precious metal, that it would soon be you walking home with your head down. But then, what do I know? Unless we can kick the Dicks out of the schoolyard or get them to somehow leave us kids alone, we may never find out.

There are some who would likely say that I’m over simplifying things. Perhaps they are right. I am not an economist. I am not someone who knows it all. I’m just a poor kid with a pocket full of toothpicks walking home with my head bowed because I no longer have even the old, corroded jacks in my pocket that I had this morning. I’m a bit upset because I don’t think anyone should be telling two consenting parties what they should or shouldn’t use to trade with. I am a little upset at all the Dicks in this world, but there’s not a lot I can do about it.
killer135 (100 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
@tom, I was talking to Conservative Man, but just start one if you want.
@killer: I have 3 (soon to be 4) games going on right now.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
08 Aug 10 UTC
I simply view that article as more of an attack on capitalism than money.
killer135 (100 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
@Con and Tom, i need two more, prove you actually play.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35365

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272 replies
President Eden (2750 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
POSTING IS A CHOICE
Info in next post
3 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Trolls are to be IGNORED.
How stupid are you people anyway? This useless waste of skin, Conservative Man is spamming the forum. Do not respond to it.
53 replies
Open
killer135 (100 D)
05 Aug 10 UTC
End Game
I just want to see some of the community's freaky endings and hear the stories behind them.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35176
I was Germany, allied with France. We killed England,Russia, and Italy fast.Then Austria becomes a challenge over who gets what. That's when I find out he's been allied with Turkey all this time, So I send my fleets at France, my armies at both of them, and try to stalemate. I end up in a draw, Turkey and France had combined 21 SCs to my 13 SCs.
20 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Obiwan's Request
http://ksolo.myspace.com/actions/showSongProfile.do?rid=2349289&sid=30038&uid=13323842

I never post this sort of stuff, but it's for a friend of mine...so yes, if you could watch and rate (preferably highly, it's only 3 minutes) I'd be very grateful...
0 replies
Open
centurion1 (1478 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
game apology
Very Sorry a game ended a few hours a day. Really sorry I resigned I'm on vacation should never have joined. Gg all
0 replies
Open
ava2790 (232 D(S))
05 Aug 10 UTC
This Site (as an authoritative polity)
Love it or hate it folks, this site is a dominant feature in our lives all over the world, and seems to have no interest in going away.
My question for you is: can we live without this seemingly ubiquitous feature of human existence? And do we want to?
16 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
05 Aug 10 UTC
Fallacy Spotting
Logic and logical fallacies I find fascinating. Find the fallacy in the argument provided, name it, and then provide a fallacious argument for someone to do the same with. Note: the conclusion need not be false!
59 replies
Open
curtis (8870 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Need one more for a live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35356
1 reply
Open
Geofram (130 D(B))
30 Jul 10 UTC
Exuberant Public Press
I'm looking for players for a public press game. Details inside:
52 replies
Open
Bob Genghiskhan (1233 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Anonymous non-gunboat live game
20 minutes from now, 20 point buy in...

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35349
1 reply
Open
The Czech (39951 D(S))
07 Aug 10 UTC
Gunboaters R Us Live in 20 Min 39 Point Buy in
6 replies
Open
Friendly Sword (636 D)
15 Jul 10 UTC
The State (as an authoritative polity)
Love it or hate it folks, the state is a dominant feature in our lives all over the world, and seems to have no interest in going away.
My question for you is: can we live without this seemingly ubiquitous feature of human exitence? And do we want to?
484 replies
Open
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