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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 639 of 1419
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svenson (101 D)
02 Aug 10 UTC
Religion
This is not meant to be a religion bashing or promoting thread. Just meant to be a intellectual discussion on why people believe what they believe.
93 replies
Open
Miro Klose (595 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Homosexuality is no choice
I am confused how much religious and far right propaganda sneaks into the forum.
42 replies
Open
_Beau_ (212 D)
09 Aug 10 UTC
Unpausing game
Could an admin please unpause game 33847? We agreed to a pause for one week, which has passed, but one player hasn't returned.
1 reply
Open
baumhaeuer (245 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Whatever happened to Stukus or Kaptain Kool?
They haven't shown up on the forum for a while.
5 replies
Open
Miyazaki (0 DX)
08 Aug 10 UTC
New World Diplomacy Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35377

Hey all, I've started a new World Diplomacy IX game - please join! Thanks :)
3 replies
Open
Jeffy (100 D)
09 Aug 10 UTC
University of south Florida bulls
Usf will beat uf in football
7 replies
Open
The Czech (39951 D(S))
09 Aug 10 UTC
wta gunboat starts in 10 min
gameID=35435
if it doesn't fill it's nighty-night for the czech
1 reply
Open
JECE (1248 D)
02 Aug 10 UTC
Settlement Fight
Hello, a friend of mine launched a new game today: www.settlementfight.com. Check it out!

(His website is www.greatplay.net. I also reccomend it.)
100 replies
Open
zscheck (2531 D)
31 Jul 10 UTC
Most Valuable non-SC on the map:
Vote now!!
50 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Aug 10 UTC
Ghost-Rating Game Challenge
If you'd like to play, post your interest below along with your August GR and desired paramters. Sign-up will end Monday the 9th.
214 replies
Open
DJEcc24 (246 D)
06 Aug 10 UTC
The highschool diplomacy players
Yes i am in highschool and would be interested in perhaps playing an all highschool player diplomacy game. Perhaps we can come up with some funky way of playing like our talking has to be in pig latin or somethin. Probably not something stupid like that though.
72 replies
Open
centurion1 (1478 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
how to open a ganes diplomatic channels
Just finished a game recently And want people to know how NOT to start off a relationship. You do NT make demands and tell people where to move. For example if I'm France I do not go to Germany you move here and there. Its very annoying and is not smart This demand things like that of people
11 replies
Open
martinck1 (4464 D(S))
08 Aug 10 UTC
Another Ghost Rating Challenge - Go On, You Know You Want To
Is anyone up for a second GRC game? I haven't played with lots of people here, which would be great if anyone else is up for it - say top 200? First 7 to sign up play?

109 martinck1 (100-500, WTA only, anon, 36hours - 2 days)
2 replies
Open
terry32smith (0 DX)
08 Aug 10 UTC
LIve - Battle of the Best - Starts @ 12:55pmPST
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35409
0 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
08 Aug 10 UTC
Strat's noncontroverial thread


Puppies are cute!
If you disagree, tell me why - then post something *you* think no one can disagree with...
27 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
07 Aug 10 UTC
Gunboaters Anonymous
See inside...
15 replies
Open
jcbryan97 (134 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Live Gunboat 101bet WTA
Live Gunboat 101bet WTA

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35400
1 reply
Open
Conservative Man (100 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Conservative Man Weekly
Someone suggested that I confine my posts to one thread. I'm not going to do that, but I will confine the threads I start to Conservative Man Weekly threads. (Most of the time)
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TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Okay, then give just an idea of what else could have causes the universe. It doesn't have to be an explanation or a scientific theory, just a general posibility of what else could have cause the universe"

You don't seem to understand the nature of ignorance... (which one might suggest was ironic)

"2. What do you mean by that?"

You cannot claim as evidence for your theory of creation that other explanations have been flawed. When someone says "This theory must be true because all the others have been disproved", they don't actually provide evidence for their theory- which may well be disproved tomorrow.

"3. That makes no sense. The matter is what makes up the universe. In fact, I could say: How did the matter that makes up the universe get here by itself?"

Go argue that one with Bertrand Russell. The need for a cause has only been proven on a very limited scale. There is no evidence that universes, or singularities, need causing.

"4. When did I ever mention an infinite regression of causes? I explained why God couldn't have been created."

You necessarily refute it, otherwise, I can say that an infinite regression of causes caused the universe as it is now.

"5. Time began at the moment God created the universe. The creation of the universe was contained within the first unit of Planck Time."

This is flawed. The creation of something necessarily precedes it, hence the claim that you cannot have creation without time.

"6. Not a good analogy. I woudn't call the marble simpler, because there are many questions about how the marble got there, why the (still millions of) sand grains are on top of it, and more."

And this is different how? How did God come to be, or why *is* God? Why did God create a universe? Why like this? The "why is it as it is?" question is made more acutely difficult by having a sentient being. Also, how can God be sentient without time? How can a timeless God act within time?

" It has a creation story that is very close to what actually happened"

Not really... it doesn't go into much detail, and the sequence is wrong too!

"In Isaiah, it mentions the Earth is round. Most people at that time thought that the Earth was flat. How did Isaiah know it was round?"

Eclipses proved to the Greeks that the earth was round. Similarly, ships rising from the horizon provide excellent evidence of the curvature of the earth. Also, the quotation is, "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:", which is actually perfectly consistent with a circular disc earth, which was what most people thought at the time. It could also be poetic language.

Looking at other celestial bodies shows that they "hangeth over nothing"... why not the earth? "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing," is nigh on gibberish anyway.

Finally, I am pretty sure a lot of inaccurate science could easily be found in the bible if I could be bothered to look.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"You don't seem to understand the nature of ignorance... (which one might suggest was ironic)"

Hehe
Lord Gartho (100 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Finally, I am pretty sure a lot of inaccurate science could easily be found in the bible if I could be bothered to look." Fallacy! You are using an assumption that could be wrong as you have not actually checked the bible.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Okay....

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? 1:3-5


God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. 1:6-8


Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11


God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? 1:16


"And God set them [the stars] in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." 1:17

God gave humans dominion over every other living thing on earth. 1:26

"be fruitful and multiply" before Eve was even to undergo childbirth... did the child originally teleport out of the womb?


All animals were originally herbivores. Tapeworms, vampire bats, mosquitoes, and barracudas -- all were strict vegetarians, as they were created by God. 1:30


After making the animals, God has Adam name them all. The naming of several million species must have kept Adam busy for a while. 2:18-22. Also, we seem to have forgotten the names of all the different bugs that we keep rediscovering, so it was a bit of a wasted effort.

God curses the serpent. From now on the serpent will crawl on his belly and eat dust. One wonders how he got around before -- by hopping on his tail, perhaps? But snakes don't eat dust, do they? 3:14


I could go on....

TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Note: that is just Genisis 1, 2 and a bit of Genisis 3....
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Since CM mentioned them:

Job:


The earth rests upon pillars and doesn't move (unless God gets angry or something). 9:6


Isiah:


God will gather up the people of Judea "from the four corners of the earth." In the Bible's view, the earth is flat with four corners. 11:12


So if the bible did mean to say what CM claimed, it contradicts itself. Whoops!
@Ghost: 1. You don't get what I'm saying.
2. When all other possibilities have been eliminated, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth.
3. You're ignoring the fact that matter being created by itself violates the laws of physics.
4. What do you mean by that?
5. Creation is cause and effect. However, in quantum physics, cause doesn't always precede effect (It always does in relativistic physics, however). They could happen at the same time. And the creation of the universe is most definitely a quantum matter, as it started with a singularity.
6. Perhaps God created the universe to become sentient.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"When all other possibilities have been eliminated, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth."

Ok, so eliminate the infinite possibilities of the ways that the universe could have been created.
@Ghost: Those were both figures of speech, dumbass.
@Tom: And how are there infinite ways the universse has been created? Until you can give a different possiblity besides on it's own and with God, I have no choice but to believe God did it, as that is the best explanation currently available.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
"@Ghost: 1. You don't get what I'm saying."

I do, that's the problem you have. I also know logical fallacies.

"2. When all other possibilities have been eliminated, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth."

And have you totally disproved every other possibility? Clearly not, your mind, and anyone else's, is not capable of conceiving of every other possibility.

"3. You're ignoring the fact that matter being created by itself violates the laws of physics."

The physics of a singularity such as at the big bang has not be determined.

"4. What do you mean by that?"

Why can't it be the case that the cause of the matter we have is other matter previously, and the cause of that is the matter prior to that, ad infinitum?

"5. Creation is cause and effect. However, in quantum physics, cause doesn't always precede effect (It always does in relativistic physics, however). They could happen at the same time. And the creation of the universe is most definitely a quantum matter, as it started with a singularity."

Okay, if we accept that, why can't the universe cause itself?

"6. Perhaps God created the universe to become sentient."

So a non-sentient being created the whole universe with the express purpose of becoming sentient? How the **** does that work?

"@Ghost: Those were both figures of speech, dumbass."

Oh, so if it disproves your argument, it's a figure of speech, I'm a dumbass, but if it points to your case, then you are a genius of greater skill than Bertrand Russel, David Hume, Carl Sagan and hundreds of brilliant philosophers, scientists and other men of the mind. Sorry, I should have understood that.

Apriorism- look it up.

Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Until you can give a different possiblity besides on it's own and with God, I have no choice but to believe God did it, as that is the best explanation currently available."

Ok. The universe has always existed. There is some other way to explain how the universe was created.

If you think that God creating the universe is the best explanation available then so be it. I have no right to say what is or isn't the best explanation available to you. But to say that it proves that God exists is wrong. It may be a good argument that God exists, but you have proven nothing.
@Ghost: 2. Read above post
3. Even if it's a singularity, it's still the universe. Matter still can't be created or destroyed. (Unless God did it)
4. Because of Occam's Razor. It's much simpler to assume God did it.
5. See number 3.
6. Are you saying a non-sentient being can't create something? Becuase beavers aren't sentient, but they are as sure as hell good at building dams.

Also: Haven't you ever heard of the four corners of the earth figure of speech? It just means areas of the earth that are far away from eachother. For the other one, that was a poetic figure of speech, which meant that God is all powerful and can move the Earth around if he wanted too.
Now, to make this a proper debate, you have to show how the verses I listed could also be figures of speech.
"The universe has always existed" The big bang theory shows that that is wrong, does it not?
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Because of Occam's Razor. It's much simpler to assume God did it."

Just because it is simpler does not make it any more correct.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"The universe has always existed" The big bang theory shows that that is wrong, does it not?

The Big Bang Theory is a theory. It has not been proven.
@Tom: But there is lots and lots of evidence for it. So although I did not prove God, I have shown that it is very, very, very, likely that He exists (Probably like a 99.999999999999999999999999999999% chance). Assuming the universe is real of course.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"Probably like a 99.999999999999999999999999999999% chance"

Wooo, I can pull numbers out of my ass too! There is a 431% that I am eating a sandwich and a 31.5356% that the sky if falling.

You have shown nothing, except that God creating a universe is one of many theories about how the universe began.
@Tom: I know I was pulling numbers out of my ass. The point was, it is very likely God exists.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
07 Aug 10 UTC
I would place it more around 50/50. Until there is non-circumstantial evidence I will refuse to think it is "very very likely". Also it does not have to be a god, just a powerful being.
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
07 Aug 10 UTC
"beavers aren't sentient, but they are as sure as hell good at building dams."
1) beavers have brains, remember things (such as where their shelter is), plan, and perceive their surroundings and react to their surroundings. Kind of bizarre to claim that they aren't sentient.
2) beaver behavior is of course guided by evolution - mutation and natural selection - resulting from its (the species') interaction with its environment. A beaver, in other words, even if it wasn't sentient (say, like a tree isn't sentient) isn't a blank slate and wasn't formed in a vacuum. ...so this seems to suggest that God in your comparison evolved? (and was therefore being acting upon and molded by his environment to reach the point of building the universe) i.e. God wasn't alone - there were things acting upon him prior to the creation of the universe
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
07 Aug 10 UTC
perhaps, in your evolving god model, if you go back far enough there was a God Singularity from which sprang a God Big Bang.
@Dexter: No. Ghostmaker just asked why God created the universe, and also mentioned something about God not being sentient if there was no time, so I suggested that perhaps God created the universe to become sentient. Ghost asked how an unsentient thing could create something, so I showed how beavers, who are unsentient, create things.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
"I would place it more around 50/50. Until there is non-circumstantial evidence I will refuse to think it is "very very likely". Also it does not have to be a god, just a powerful being."

You don't think that it is an indeterminate chance- i.e. that any number is taken out of an ass somewhere.

" I showed how beavers, who are unsentient, create things."

When someone doesn't know the meaning of "sentient", or ardently believes that a host of logical fallacies that he has committed aren't actually fallacies, one has to question whether it is worth arguing with them.

FYI:
Beavers have consciousness (not conscience, btw) and sensations (sight, smell etc.) so are sentient.
Maniac (189 D(B))
07 Aug 10 UTC
@Conservative man - could you also half prove that all men are women, all squares are rectangles and all purples are a shade of puce?
@Ghost: What the hell! All my life I've learned that only humans were sentient, but when I search it on wikipedia, it says that all animals are sentient. Am I in the twilight zone?

@Maniac: "could you also half prove that...all squares are rectangles" ROFL. All squares ARE rectangles. So I could prove that all the way. Somebody didn't pay attention during geometry class.
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
07 Aug 10 UTC
@Conservative Man, some have argued in the past that only humans were sentient - but it seemed to have been based on not much more than an interpretation of the bible (animals not having souls and being here to serve us)... Scientifically there is very little to nothing to distinguish us qualitatively from the other apes and the rest of the animal kingdom. Obviously we are the most advanced mentally and have the largest brains for our size - but these don't seem to create a bright line between us and the rest of the animals. We have language - dolphins have language (and apes can both learn and teach language)... we make tools, chimps make tools... we are self-aware (maybe this is the term you were looking for), chimps, gorillas, orangutans, elephants, bottle-nose dolphins, pigs and magpies have all been shown to be self-aware... we have thoughts about life after death, elephants have graveyards to which they return to years later and mourn (moaning and caressing the bones of their deceased family members [not just any bones - only the ones of their loved ones])... There is yet to be an area to which we've shown ourselves to be completely distinct from other higher animals. There may still be people that argue that only humans are sentient... but they have no scientific basis on which to base such a claim and there is plenty of evidence to show such a claim to be false.

And yes, you aren't quite alone in feeling like you were in the twilight zone - I remember some of these arguments in decades gone past... and one by one they fell - as we discovered more about other animals and their abilities. Heck - consider that it is a historical fact that people that were mute (could not speak) were called dumb (and thought to be less intelligent) and people that are deaf were also thought by many to be less intelligent. We as humans have a tendency to make conclusions before we have a complete picture.
Anyway, this is my thread, and I want to change the topic to something I'm considering: The barter economy. There's no cash or anything. People (Or companies) make products and trade them for other products. There's an incentive to work, nothing to hurt economic production, so it's a great society. (If you suscribe to anarchy, but that's another debate) Does everyone at least agree that if anarchy could work (which I of course think it can), then this is a good system?
killer135 (100 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
This would be the only thing that would work for Anarchy, so yes, If anarchy would work, then this would have to be the system.
By the way, by anything I meant currency.

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272 replies
President Eden (2750 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
POSTING IS A CHOICE
Info in next post
3 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Trolls are to be IGNORED.
How stupid are you people anyway? This useless waste of skin, Conservative Man is spamming the forum. Do not respond to it.
53 replies
Open
killer135 (100 D)
05 Aug 10 UTC
End Game
I just want to see some of the community's freaky endings and hear the stories behind them.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35176
I was Germany, allied with France. We killed England,Russia, and Italy fast.Then Austria becomes a challenge over who gets what. That's when I find out he's been allied with Turkey all this time, So I send my fleets at France, my armies at both of them, and try to stalemate. I end up in a draw, Turkey and France had combined 21 SCs to my 13 SCs.
20 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
Obiwan's Request
http://ksolo.myspace.com/actions/showSongProfile.do?rid=2349289&sid=30038&uid=13323842

I never post this sort of stuff, but it's for a friend of mine...so yes, if you could watch and rate (preferably highly, it's only 3 minutes) I'd be very grateful...
0 replies
Open
centurion1 (1478 D)
08 Aug 10 UTC
game apology
Very Sorry a game ended a few hours a day. Really sorry I resigned I'm on vacation should never have joined. Gg all
0 replies
Open
ava2790 (232 D(S))
05 Aug 10 UTC
This Site (as an authoritative polity)
Love it or hate it folks, this site is a dominant feature in our lives all over the world, and seems to have no interest in going away.
My question for you is: can we live without this seemingly ubiquitous feature of human existence? And do we want to?
16 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
05 Aug 10 UTC
Fallacy Spotting
Logic and logical fallacies I find fascinating. Find the fallacy in the argument provided, name it, and then provide a fallacious argument for someone to do the same with. Note: the conclusion need not be false!
59 replies
Open
curtis (8870 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Need one more for a live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35356
1 reply
Open
Geofram (130 D(B))
30 Jul 10 UTC
Exuberant Public Press
I'm looking for players for a public press game. Details inside:
52 replies
Open
Bob Genghiskhan (1233 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Anonymous non-gunboat live game
20 minutes from now, 20 point buy in...

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35349
1 reply
Open
The Czech (39951 D(S))
07 Aug 10 UTC
Gunboaters R Us Live in 20 Min 39 Point Buy in
6 replies
Open
Friendly Sword (636 D)
15 Jul 10 UTC
The State (as an authoritative polity)
Love it or hate it folks, the state is a dominant feature in our lives all over the world, and seems to have no interest in going away.
My question for you is: can we live without this seemingly ubiquitous feature of human exitence? And do we want to?
484 replies
Open
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