Really Mafia? do you have any statistics to counter me? Because I have statistics on more women going to college than men, higher test scores for women, I just mentioned the military's new measures, and if I dig, I'm sure I could find more.

@Draugnar - I can see the reasoning behind your statement. Without actually looking at payrolls though, I cannot pretend to know the extent to which what you say is true

Are you serious?
OK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_gap

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science#Women_in_science
"Science is largely a male-dominated field, with notable exceptions.[82] Evidence suggests that this is due to stereotypes (e.g. science as "manly") as well as self-fulfilling prophecies.[83][84] Experiments have shown that parents challenge and explain more to boys than girls, asking them to reflect more deeply and logically."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault#United_States
In the United States, several studies since 1987 have shown that one in four college women have survived rape or attempted rape at some point in their lifetime. This statistic has remained unchanged. These studies are based on anonymous surveys of college women, not reports to the police. A 2006 report from the U.S. Department of Justice titled "The Sexual Victimization of College Women" reports that 3.1% of undergraduates survived rape or attempted rape during a 6-7 month academic year with an additional 10.1% surviving rape prior to college and an additional 10.9% surviving attempted rape prior to college. With no overlap between these groups, these percentages add to 24.1%, or "One in Four" (Fisher, Cullen & Turner, 2006).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_government

And these are just the things I can point to STATISTICALLY. What about the things we can't quantify? The way people think about women, the way women are viewed and portrayed, vs. similar questions about men. Ever hear of the Bechdel test? Here's a fantastic post illustrating the way women are objectified in contrast to men in the world of professional sports, http://culturallydisoriented.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/the-bodies-we-want-female-athletes-in-espn-magazines-body-issue/
I could do this for HOURS.

Listen, get your head out of the sand. Some things are getting better for women. It's undoubtedly true. It's encouraging to see progress, but there's still a long way to go.

Damn, I forgot to preface that last post with this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4&feature=related

Because at some point you have to stop taking people who claim to have statistics proving sexism is fixed forever all that seriously.

Lol Mafia is someone arguing that women these days have it better than men?

That's a joke.

Yes. It's someone who's named himself after a movie where a naked woman is suffocated in gold and then left on her lover's bed, and is pretty thoroughly objectified throughout. And all apparently without a sense of irony either.

(Also part of the reason I posted the second video is cause I watched The Amazing Spider-Man today, and even though it was actually pretty good, I missed J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/10/28/man-as-object-reversing-the-gaze/

I swear this thread has already been made like a year ago.

Here's one you've probably all seen but funny anyways

http://whattheeff.com/if-all-the-avengers-posed-like-black-widow/

It is interesting that the statistics for rape (I confess I will have to closely exam how the statistics were gathered, what questions were asked and how rape was defined before accepting a result that is so far removed from my experience) have not changed between since 87. It makes it seem that whatever the feminist movement has been doing to change this has failed utterly. I would be interested to know how their strategy (if indeed there is a coordinated strategy) has altertered in reaction to its lack of success..

No movement is going to stop or reduce the occurrences of rape. Rape is a control thing, not sex. And those who commit it are not healthy normal people so theire rational mind is overridden by their basic urges and no amount of awareness is going to change that. Date rape numbers might drop, but they are such a small percentage of the total.

Ummm...actually date rape is pretty high.

1 in 4 is higher than I'm used to hearing. The more commonly quoted statistic that comes from a CDC report is 1 in 6. And the point is that it's not just deeply disturbed individuals who rape. The point is very much that anyone is capable of it, so long as their conditioned to think, unconsciously that women exist for their pleasure.

And @ Octavious - The feminist movement has been evolving and changing plenty since '87 (and before that too). But, however the movement changes, the public perception of women, and particularly, objectifying media depictions of women are remaining more or less the same. The problem here is not with feminism. The problem is with everyone else.

I heard 1 in 4 college women would be subjected to rape or attempted rape, but I never heard all of those were date rape or what percentage of rape attempts are on college women. But I guess if you reduce the attempts then attrition naturally reduces the successes. I also question then college stat as I haven't seen numbers confirming convictions in both the rape and attempted rape cases. Women are not objects or playthings, but they can't get drunk then claim rape the next day just because thay have morning after regret and that happens a lot in the binge drinking culture of major party schools.like OSU and others.

Ha. I knew that was going to be good as soon as I read the sentence "Women are not objects or playthings, but...". It's like "I'm not racist, but..." You know what's coming.

And now we have an excellent example of another form of sexism; victim blaming. Several points. Would we judge a very drunk man the same way we would a woman? No we don't. If a woman wants to get very drunk, that's totally OK. Guess what guys, that doesn't mean it's OK to go try and have sex with her 'cause she's drunk. Having sex with someone who can't meaningfully consent? That's rape. I can't believe I actually have to explain this. It's not women's job to be sure they never get drunk so no one can take advantage of them. It's your responsibility to make sure your sexual partners are sober enough to actually consent to things! Don't have sex with really drunk people guys. It's called "being a decent person 101." If someone got married when really drunk, we wouldn't call it a valid marriage (we actually don't, legally speaking) if someone signed a contract really drunk, it wouldn't be considered legally valid. Actually. We'd say whoever convinced an obviously drunk person to sign a contract had taken advantage of their victim. Why is it suddenly different when it's a woman who's manipulated into sex while drunk?

Also, the whole, false rape claim, or next morning regret thing isn't true. I'm not claiming that it's never happens. But there's this idea that most rape cases are girls just feeling regret, and that's bullshit.

Come on! Why drunk people cant have sex?

It´s much better when you are drunk....

"If a woman wants to get very drunk, that's totally OK. Guess what guys, that doesn't mean it's OK to go try and have sex with her 'cause she's drunk. "

I call bullshit on that. College women hook up with college men and college men hook up with college women. If *either* can't handle their liquor, they shouldn't drink. Hooking up with someone who is all over you and flirting with you (it happen's with grown 30 and 40 and 50 something women at the casino all the time) is *not* rape.

rape/rāp/




Noun:




1.The crime, committed by a man, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with him, esp. by the threat or use of violence.

Now, there doesn't have to be violence and spiking someone's drink is forcing them to. But if some women gets drunk and sleeps with a guy willing, it is *not* rape.

I grew with draug, with the caveat, if they change their mind it is rape if you proceed, if they pass out, it is rape if you proceed.

Oh good, the dictionary. Why is everyone always goes to the dictionary? Dictionary definitions are limited by space, and brevity, they don't really have time to go into any depth, detail or nuance.
I'm sorry draug, just because it happens that doesn't mean that it's not rape. The whole point here is that rape is a thing that happens. You can't say "X happens, therefore it's not rape." Not even the dictionary defines rape as "that which does not happen".
The fact is, you shouldn't. I realize it happens. I realize sometimes you don't think about it too much, but guess what. Taking advantage of someone who's drunk, even someone who's all over you while drunk, is still wrong.

smcbride - If someone is so drunk they may pass out, you have no business having sex with them. Oh my god. OH MY GOD.

http://www.shakesville.com/2007/10/modest-proposal-thorny-issue-of-sexual.html
"On a totally serious note -- if you are having sex with a stranger, and both of you aren't sober or conscious enough to at least have a coherent talk about STDs and birth control before you make the beast with two backs or commence with the muff-diving/sword-swallowing -- maybe you should consider exchanging phone numbers, going home alone, and having a nap. Seriously."

You Americans are so puritanical about sex. Women like sex. Only in America does the law say you need to get a woman's permission first. In any civilized country, you get them drunk, then grab their boobs. Women wear tight clothing to encourage this behavior.

I am not implying that, if she is at risk of passing out, but not quite passed out, that you should go ahead and have sex. I do feel that people are perfectly capable of making decisions while they are drunk. If they are incoherent then it is bad. If you are a reasonable person you can make a valid judgement of whether you are taking advantage.

The first no and it is rape and unconcious or about other pass out and it is rape. I agree completely with that. But drunk and florting so you go fuck. her ain't rape. It is consentual until She says no or stop or is incoherent/passed out.

Regret the next morning is true. It happens to guys too you know...

@Al Swearrengen
I really don't consider that civilized.
@Invictus: Yep. I personally agree with what everyone says about having sex with drunks as being immoral, but it shouldn't be ilegal.

@ Draug - I don't think a little bit tipsy qualifies it necessarily as rape, but there's definintely a level of inebriation at which you really ought to think twice about it.

And more importantly I object vehemently to your implication that the morning-after-regret-leading-to-rape-accusation is a common thing, or accounts for a lot of rape cases. That really isn't true. The false rape claim thing is almost entirely made up, false claims of rape are extremely, extremely rare.

I'd say it's safe to assume that Al Sweargarden is just trolling. Ignore him.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant the guy's I-gotta-get-my-life-together regret about a partner even when the girl has a fine time, the reverse of the scenario Mafialligator said is fantasy. That's related to the general regret of doing things while drunk, but an important distinction.