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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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dirge (768 D(B))
13 Jan 14 UTC
Do Webdippers have a temperamental attitudinal problem?
or, is it just me?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130826123147.htm
4 replies
Open
thehamster (3263 D)
07 Jan 14 UTC
(+3)
Coming Soon: The Winter 2014 School of War
We'll be needing TA's and students. Please post in this thread if you'd like to participate.
109 replies
Open
Vampiero (3525 D)
13 Jan 14 UTC
World diplomacy
Quick we need two more players for a world diplomacy fame called fast world diplomacy. http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=133113
0 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
13 Jan 14 UTC
Forced Pauses?
Gentlemen,

I would like your opinion on a particular issue. Should the staff have the authority to pause the game?
9 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
11 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
"Human activity caused climate change is a myth"
"Humans don't cause climate change, its a myth, solar cycle, earth cycles blah blah blah"
http://www.jamespowell.org/
22 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
12 Jan 14 UTC
Turkey vs France...
Looking at some stats from webdip.
5 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
12 Jan 14 UTC
Building a NUC...
I am about to embark on a buying and building journey for church. They were recently donated a 40" monitor and want to set up a multimedia center in the narthex, so I am buying an Intel Next Unit of Computing to drive it. Any gotchas to look out for from you home builders?
0 replies
Open
Lopt (102 D)
12 Jan 14 UTC
Dictatorship...
.. In all it's glory! It's just brilliant and more people should see this!
1 reply
Open
ccga4 (1831 D(B))
11 Jan 14 UTC
vdiplomacy working?
Is vdiplomacy working for anyone? It appears to be down.
13 replies
Open
Mznvc (426 D)
11 Jan 14 UTC
8 hour classic game - 50 points
Only 6 hours left to join!
2 replies
Open
Ogion (3882 D)
09 Jan 14 UTC
A suggestion to deal with inactive players and civil disorder
As you know, having players quit games is an ongoing issue because it unbalances the games. I have a couple of potential ideas:
23 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
10 Jan 14 UTC
Replacement Needed for the Masters
For substitution in ongoing games. The Sub is urgently needed, and please, top 100 GR is much preferred.
4 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
08 Jan 14 UTC
Do anyone else's menus look different?
Like, the chat box, the drop down selections for move and territories, and the forum boxes and stuff. All looks different.
12 replies
Open
Favio (385 D)
09 Jan 14 UTC
Crazy College Professors
In this thread, tell stories about some of your quirkiest college professors (or high school teachers, if you did not go to college)
108 replies
Open
BusDespres (182 D)
10 Jan 14 UTC
Grand Rapids/Michigan
Are there any players from Grand Rapids or Michigan on here?
4 replies
Open
kaner406 (356 D)
11 Jan 14 UTC
sitter needed:
for 1 game, please PM me for details.
Thanks in advance!
0 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
08 Jan 14 UTC
(+2)
I hate my generation
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/five-economic-reforms-millennials-should-be-fighting-for-20140103

Nonsense, root and branch
110 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
10 Jan 14 UTC
(+2)
Questions for Students/Teachers
I'll be teaching again this Spring, but since it's not my full-time job, I wanted to ask a couple questions to see what people thought. Thanks!

51 replies
Open
DipperDon (6457 D)
08 Jan 14 UTC
Texas Players?
Anyone living in Texas?
12 replies
Open
LakersFan (899 D)
10 Jan 14 UTC
Interesting Global Warming Cartoon
https://medium.com/the-nib/2b117d37f768
2 replies
Open
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
10 Jan 14 UTC
Bug, or Working as Intended?
I had the retreats phase open for a game, and was clicking through the years, and when I fast-forwarded back to present I saw the retreat order because the retreat had been processed right then. It was humorous to see a page with !! for a retreat order under a map with the order shown.
3 replies
Open
ezra willis (305 D)
09 Jan 14 UTC
Wind turbines
Does anyone have any knowledge on how the blades of a wind turbine turns the genorator and how they are connected to the generator? Any knowledge on this subject would be appreciated. And please don't give me a answer that you got from wiki. Thanks.
20 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
10 Jan 14 UTC
Deadspin Hall of Fame Vote
Dear baseball fans: fuck you because we know better than you. Sincerely, BHOF.
8 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
28 Dec 13 UTC
(+2)
"Is belief in God rational?" The Great Debate #1
semck83 representing Christian theism and President Eden representing atheism. Full debate transcript inside!
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dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
Putin's antipathy to Christianity borders on the pathological. I think that is pretty germane to the conversation.
mendax (321 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
@Draug, no it wasn't. It was trite, crass gaslighting, and it deserves to be called out as such.
mendax (321 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
He may be rather vociferous about it, but the truth remains that organised religion is, in general, anti-intellectual, and there are plenty of Bible passages that come out clearly against intellectual honesty and curiosity.
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
No I think that has been thoroughly contested.
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
It is s "truth" to you because you start with that assumption. It is part of your secular articles of faith.
mendax (321 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
You can contest something and lose. Indeed, you have done exactly this. Time and time again.
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
Just claim victory and announce the debate over.
mendax (321 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
"secular articles of faith"

Citation needed. I have never seen such articles. Are they written down somewhere? Perhaps they're on some piece of parchment in a museum that I've never visited? Please, enlighten me on these legendary articles, and what they're supposed to say. Because right now, having articles of faith seems completely antithetical to secularism, and it's almost as if you're just pulling that phrase out of your arse in order to enjoy some brief moments of rhetorical grandstanding.
Draugnar (0 DX)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
OK, mendax, yes it was a stab. I apologize to you for trying to claim otherwise and to Putin for stabbing that way. I'll keep the stabs on the game board. Let's get back to the discussion, because Christianity in it's incarnation since at least the damn of Protestantism has *not* been anti-intellectual. In fact, most seminaries require secondary study in a secular field as well and modern day Christianity gives scholarships to students in all fields of study, not just seminary students.
Draugnar (0 DX)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
They exist in the same place the British Constitution exists, yet the Brits claim that exists.
Putin33 (111 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
All they can do is derail the conversation and engage in grandstanding. Because they have no case whatsoever. I mean they're seriously arguing that literacy is not necessary for education. The sole argument Dip2004 has provided is "Jews are smart". Draugnar when he's not arguing against literacy being necessary for education has tried to argue that exhortations not to study anything else doesn't mean not to study anything else.

Putin33 (111 D)
31 Dec 13 UTC
"I think that is pretty germane to the conversation."

When all else fails, make it about Putin33.
Draugnar (0 DX)
31 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
"When all else fails, make it about Putin33."

An egotist like you enjoys it and you know it.

tendmote (100 D(B))
31 Dec 13 UTC
As a nonbeliever, I don't see the point of trying to persuade anyone one way or another.
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
31 Dec 13 UTC
@Putin:

Oh no, I'm not claiming religion isn't bad at all. It's both bad and misused. You have been listening to me at least a little bit over the last few years, haven't you? I'm quite surprised (and a little hurt, yuk yuk) that you would say that.

It's just not guilty of what you're claiming here. At some points in history, religious people have been some of the ones literate, and made many of our scientific advancements. Religion only gets pissed at intellectualism when that intellectualism hurts religion - and the passages you quote by and large support this statement.

The one and only goal of religion is to acquire as many believers as possible. The killing of wisdom and intelligence is merely a byproduct in pursuit of that goal. Though I would concede that they are necessarily very highly intertwined. It's difficult to make an intelligent, educated, nonbeliever accept the nonsense.

I wonder if anybody has ever done studies on the relative IQs of believers vs. people who were once believers, but have since left the church.
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
31 Dec 13 UTC
hmm let me try this a different way, and let me keep an open mind because I could be wrong.

Putin, can you think of a time when Christianity has opposed science or learning when that science or learning does not go against the tenets of Christianity? If you can, then that would support your claim.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
01 Jan 14 UTC
Sure, YJ ... tall churches have lightning rods now.

Ah, medieval history jokes...
duckofspades (170 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
Belief is not rational or not rational. You really can't prove one or the other. No matter how much we understand about our universe. It all comes down to what built the smallest element of our universe. Then what built that.
If every thing needs a cause then nonthing can exist cause you can never start. So people input God. Well if all power being can exist without cause that can create everything. Then why can't I exist with out cause, with me complete lack of God like power. Or to put it back all the way the building blocks of life with out cause.
So I think it's rational to think something can exist with out cause. But if something can exist without cause. Then why do we limit it to God or not God?
You can't test existence cause all we know is it's true. We can't go back and test the start cause, it has to always be.
Unless is come in from a separate existence, but how can we test that if it's out side our existence. Then what created that.
Existence should not be true, but it is and that is all we will ever know in my opinion.
Putin33 (111 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
"Putin, can you think of a time when Christianity has opposed science or learning when that science or learning does not go against the tenets of Christianity?"

I can't think of a time when science and learning did not go against the tenets of Christianity.

http://vserver1.cscs.lsa.umich.edu/~crshalizi/White/
dipplayer2004 (1110 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
That is because you start from that position, and only consider evidence which supports it
Thucydides (864 D(B))
01 Jan 14 UTC
Alright so are people still talking about the debate in question or is it time to move to the next
Putin33 (111 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
"That is because you start from that position, and only consider evidence which supports it"

A theist is criticizing someone for retrofitting information to fit their pre-determined conclusions? Hilarity.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
01 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
Alright I'll post the new one tomorrow
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
White's book is a thoroughly discredited work that is known to have simply invented numerous "facts" and which no serious historian of science would quote today, Putin. That's weak even for you.

"Historians of science have known for years that White's and Draper's accounts are more propaganda than history." -- Ronald Numbers.

It even repeats the ludicrous story about Columbus and Magellan establishing the roundness of the earth to a society that didn't believe it.
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Jan 14 UTC
I guess I never posted my own thoughts on the debate, so I'll do so now. I'll remind readers at the outset that it's hard to be objective on such things; so while I've tried to be honest and scrutinize both sides, I can't reject the ubiquitous possibility of bias.

With all that said, let me begin by saying how impressed I was by PE as an adversary. I'm not sure we had had extensive philosophical discussion before, and I was unsure what to expect. PE navigated with aplomb through philosophical points that even many educated people find bewildering. This allowed the debate to focus largely on substance, which made it really enjoyable and, I think, quite substantive.

To summarize, I thought -- and here, see caveat in my first paragraph -- that I did succeed, and the affirmative won. It has been pointed out by others that a definition of rationality was never firmly agreed upon by us. I don't share in others' regret about this, because I think it's such an important and interesitn issue that it's certain to arise anyhow and to generate interesting discussion, which it did.

That said, I thought that PE made a decisive concession in the cross-examination phase of the debate, when he allowed that sensory and logical belief are accepted on faith. He had earlier defended these as rational according to his usage of the word (although rejecting their certainty), and there was nothing in anything he said that would distinguish why one purely faith-based belief was rational and another was not. (And even if he had, I had made points arguing that theistic belief grounds other knowledge, as PE suggested the senses and other faith propositions can do). This allowed me to point out in my closing that, according to PE's own definition, there was nothing left preventing us from concluding that Christian belief was rational.

I spent very little time on this point (I think one sentence), because, while I do think it sufficed for an affirmative victory under the negative's definition and reasoning pattern, it was a somewhat technical point, and didn't lead to interesting substance. Moreover, I rejected both the negative's definition of rationality and the conclusion that any purely faith-based belief is rational, so I had little interest beyond the strategic in pointing it out.

This leaves the other line of discussion, based on the affirmative's conception of rationality. This was at least partly aceded to by PE on at least one occasion, but never firmly settled on. Nevertheless, as I outlined in my closing, I believe I made sufficient arguments to establish a prima facie case that was never refuted that, under this conception of rationality, Christian belief was rational.

In one sense it's sad that the debate didn't go a little longer -- PE was giving signs of wrestling with this line of argument in more interesting ways in his closing. His specific closing arguments, to my mind, all rested on points that I had already addressed, and so failed to refute the prima facie case I had made; but a phrase here and there promised very interesting discussion if we proceeded. Perhaps we can do so in the future!

That, again, is the summary of the debate as I see it, but I don't mean to say I can't understand how somebody could read it and come to other conclusions about who won. It is hard to get out of one's own head, after all, and not everything we mean or think is clear on paper.

I thought PE asked outstanding questions in cross-examination, and I enjoyed the opportunity to answer them. His demeanor, timeliness, and generosity in the debate all deserve note (there was a misunderstanding about the expectation that I would define God, which he allowed me to correct without penalty). Altogether I left with a lot of respect for his intellect and ability to move quickly in a conversation to the interesting points; and I would love the opportunity to have another discussion with him in the future, if time and events allowed.
Putin33 (111 D)
01 Jan 14 UTC
"White's book is a thoroughly discredited work"

No, actually, it isn't.

"is known to have simply invented numerous "facts" "

I doubt you even read the book. Provide examples of such 'inventions'.

"t even repeats the ludicrous story about Columbus and Magellan establishing the roundness of the earth to a society that didn't believe it."

You clearly didn't read the book and are just negative reviews without investigation. That's not what he said. And what he said was factual. The Bishop of Ceuta did undermine Columbus when he brought his proposal to the Portuguese king. Spanish priests on the Council of Salamanca *did* refer Columbus to biblical passages about the 'world-as-firmament' in order to oppose him - this is well documented. White did not say that "society didn't believe" but that influential religious authority figures continued to oppose the theory.

semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Jan 14 UTC
Putin,

I did read the relevant portion of the book, and that section *is* fiction. Ceuta did not oppose Columbus on the earth being round (flatly contradicting him); the bulk of the opposition he received was on his estimate of the size of the earth, a question on which, incidentally, he was wrong and his opponents were right.

As for the Council of Salamanca citing world-as-firmament -- I have looked for about 10-15 minutes and can find no sources on this. You say it is well documented. Please provide a source. (I'm not denying one exists, but at this stage, it's easier to ask than to keep searching since you seem to know of one).
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Jan 14 UTC
In the phrase "flatly contradicting him," "him" was supposed to refer to White, btw.
Putin33 (111 D)
02 Jan 14 UTC
"Putin,

I did read the relevant portion of the book"

No, you plagiarized wikipedia criticisms of it. If you read the book you wouldn't have said what you said.

"and that section *is* fiction"

Your reading of it is fiction. I do enjoy how you even admit to not reading a book but have no problem smearing it and the author. Very informative.

"Ceuta did not oppose Columbus on the earth being round (flatly contradicting him)"

That's not what the book said. The book simply says that Ceuta treated him poorly, which all historians agree that he did. He sent this secret caravel west without Columbus's knowledge, knowing full well it would run into problems, so that the King would be dissuaded from supporting Columbus.

" the bulk of the opposition he received was on his estimate of the size of the earth, a question on which, incidentally, he was wrong and his opponents were right."

Actually the bulk of opposition from Ceuta was about the expense of the trip and Portugal's financial situation at the time, since they had been embroiled in war.

It's funny you talk of "invented facts" when you're just making stuff up here about what White said.

"I have looked for about 10-15 minutes and can find no sources on this."

Washington Irving
A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus, Volume 1
pp 121-123

https://archive.org/details/historyoflifeand01irviiala

Putin33 (111 D)
02 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
It's interesting how we go from --- what White said was clearly "fiction" --- to --- there *may* have been a Council at Salamanca who used theological arguments against the sphericity of the globe and the Antipodes. But I thought it was self-evidently made-up? Backpedalling much?

It appears that what is actually "weak", to use Semck's phrase, is Semck's posturing about serious scholarship and his critical analysis of works that he disagrees with.

So next time these learned theists claim that atheists engage in selection bias and don't look at work they disapprove of seriously please cite Semck's behavior here. It's pretty much par for the course for him. Superficially look at wikipedia entries on a scholarly work, declare a long work "thoroughly discredited" without having even read it based on wikipedia quotes, claim, without investigation, that facts were "made up".


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193 replies
ssorenn (0 DX)
09 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
requesting the country that you want to play
its obvious that everyone here loves to play the game --is there a way that when games could get started you could pick the country you want to play and wait for enough people to join that are willing to play the other countries.
12 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
09 Jan 14 UTC
Atheists in the east
How many are there? Relatively more or less than here? Although all the east is fine, I'm especially talking about the countries that are considered to be either hinduistic (not sure if that's how you spell it in English) or buddhistic (again not sure). Think India and the like. Not quite the Middle-East.
16 replies
Open
Lopt (102 D)
09 Jan 14 UTC
I Gave Away This Game...
What do you think..? gameID=133281

I argue that France' intention was clearly to stab me eventually and being annoyed with his consistent army positions, after making some pretty big blunders, I chose to punish him for it, what's your opinion on this?
34 replies
Open
Chibi-Alex (95 D)
09 Jan 14 UTC
Email Hasbro! Let's get Diplomacy for Wii U
I don't want to engage in any arguments about consoles, but I have a Wii U and Diplomacy would be absolutely perfect for the system, for both face to face and online games. I have gone to Hasbro's website and emailed them a request to look into developing a Diplomacy game for the Wii U. It won't take but 10 minutes to do, so let's see if we could make some headway.
11 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
08 Jan 14 UTC
I need your feedback ......
I'd just like ti run an idea up the flagpole and see if you salute it ...... would people be up for playing high-stakes games if they could actually purchase webdip points rather than have to wait for years until they were good enough to earn them through playing ??
70 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
07 Jan 14 UTC
Join this game?
Come on, ya dogs! I'm rusty, surely someone would enjoy trying to beat me!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=133213
4 replies
Open
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