"And so this goes for me too. I would grow my hair out to my shoulders for this cause, except that it's too un-normal. "

No. This is what I don't understand. You aren't dressing "against the grain" because you want to; you're doing it to make a statement.

Also, why is growing your hair out "un-normal"? I have a (male) friend with a long ponytail and he actually pulls it off really well. He also has a goatee, so there you go.

Also, I'd like to point out that men and women have very different bodies.

I can't fit into women's clothes. I like that my clothes are design to fit a male body.

you don't need cancer to get rid of the hair, you would just take some of the medicine.

There would be lazy beardasses who would shirk their chemos, giving them cancer should be enough of an incentive, though.

Yikes, Thucy.

"This is a very sad and very inconsistent story. If it's a troll then you should totally take up writing or star on 'whos line is it anyway?' kudos. "
Identify one point of inconsistency...

Its all true.

"Thucy likes his porn shemale."

I stand corrected, more like gooback.

"you cant very well run or jump in skirts or heels, and there's a very specific reason for that."
So you want to abandon short skirts and high heels? And you call yourself a man?

I mean, South Park is cool and all, but not really the first choice for mainstream fappers.

For what it's worth Thucy. I pretty much totally agree with you. Heels, Makeup. Both Ugh. Beards...so unfortunate. (and I'm the sort of person who gets five o clock shadow.) Shaving, body parts besides faces, either girls should stop or guys should start. Etc.

Though as abge says I can see a need so long as biological differences exist for different clothing sizes. Though not necessarily different styles.

"Thucy's ideal world is almost everyone else's dystopia – fugly shemales running around in identical outfits. Prefferably with cancer so there won't be any unnecessary facial hair. Not cool."

I don't exactly love the idea either but please see my post regarding us all being dead and our opinions being irrelevant to future mores.

Yeah I also know that there certain things that can't be changed barring surgery, like shirts that need to be fitted for breasts and the like. These would have to remain of course, but anything that doesn't have any reason to exist other than "it's gross when girls dont shave their armpits" or "guys shouldn't wear skirts just cause thats weird" should and will be done away with, because they have no basis in anything other than our minds.

"No. This is what I don't understand. You aren't dressing "against the grain" because you want to; you're doing it to make a statement."

Abge I don't actually understand what you mean either.

There is a part of me that wants to grow out my hair for reasons stated above. But I do not because there are outweighing social factors.

Yeah I'm not saying I'd get totally shunned or something if I grew out my hair but I would be perceived differently and meet with difficulty especially in a professional setting. That's too bad, it shouldn't be that way, but it is and I live in this world. I'm not going to just pretend society's norms don't exist, but I'm not going to stop trying to change them either.

It seems like my discussions on this site always devolve into a fundamental misunderstanding by most people of the difference between and ideal and true realist action in an imperfect world. They rarely align, but the former informs the latter.

"Though as abge says I can see a need so long as biological differences exist for different clothing sizes. Though not necessarily different styles."

This exactly.

Why do women wear shorter shorts than men? Why do women wear pastels more often? Why do women wear larger belts, why do they wear makeup and jewelry more often?

Again I know the *explanation* answer to these questions, but I am saying why *should* they? Other than because it's what we're used to?

I believe these things because it is obvious to me that the more different people look the more unequal they are treated. Separate indeed is always unequal.

PS I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this way - a lot of representations of the future have people all wearing the same outfits more or less, usually skintight stuff.

"usually skintight stuff."

If living in the future means the average american wears skin-tight clothing, that is not a future I want to live in.

"So you want to abandon short skirts and high heels? And you call yourself a man?"

Also, Fasces, I said it before but honesltly these kind of bullshit ill-defined concepts of masculinity have no impact on me. True masculinity is standing up for your principles and taking care of your business. i.e. being a good human being. Same with femininity. Odd that they should the same no? Actually, it's no coincidence - men AND women do both happen to be human beings.

"If living in the future means the average american wears skin-tight clothing, that is not a future I want to live in."

First of all, like I said, none of this would come to pass in our lifetimes so our personal opinions are irrelevant. Second of all it may not be skintight the point is the uniformity not the skintightness

However abge, in the future sci-fi movies Thucy is talking about, most are good looking thin actors and actresses...

Yeah hopefully we will fix dumb shit like obesity and frizz too. Lol.

"Also, Fasces, I said it before but honesltly these kind of bullshit ill-defined concepts of masculinity have no impact on me. True masculinity is standing up for your principles and taking care of your business. i.e. being a good human being. Same with femininity. Odd that they should the same no? Actually, it's no coincidence - men AND women do both happen to be human beings."
All I'm saying is Thucy, men and women are different.

As a male, I like looking at chicks in tiny skirts, make up etc. simply because they look hotter when they were slutty clothes.

Its just something my libido wants.

No, you don't seem to know the explanation for these questions, Thucydides. You crazily assume that people want to be treated equally when in fact they dress differently so as to be treated unequally. It's one of the ways to convey nonverbal message about yourself. Just because the message is encoded and varies among cultures doesn't mean there's no basis for it. You propose an unheard of paradigm shift in the way people think of clothes and assume it's completely natural and bound to happen. Plus you think our opinions are irrelevant, well, guess what, we have Christians around here because for the past 2000 years, some people personally thought it was a cool idea. We study personal opinions of deceased people and let them impact our own opinions. The future won't be shaped independently of today.

It's not what the people want. It's what the people deserve.

@ thucy, i missed a lot, but my answers - itching- it stops, sanitation - shampoo, food - trim it around your mouth, touch - a beard being touched is felt, old/homesless - geeve, i am young/not homeless.

tanlines - trim it short for a bit, and then shave it off. if you plan to go that route.

"Why do women wear shorter shorts than men? Why do women wear pastels more often? Why do women wear larger belts, why do they wear makeup and jewelry more often?"

I do understand what this has to do with beards? I wear a beard. I also prefer to wear shorts above my knees. And I like jewelry if I am going out.

I missed a lot of this thread, but still am passionate about facial hair.

....taking character notes......

i guess the point lando is that if i was a woman and held the same beliefs i was espousing above I would also ask "why do men have the ability to grow beards and not women"?

Then I would wonder why all the men don't just shave off their beards and remove just one, if only one, thing that separates the sexes. As a man, realizing this, I choose to shave off my beard and keep it that way.

Thucy, are you suggesting that quite a lot of women would love to grow a beard, but can't, and that because this is unfair to them, that's one of the reasons you don't have a beard yourself? Really?

I can honestly say I lots of female friends - in fact about 75% of my close friends are women - and I have never heard a single one of them complain about how unfair it is that she can't have a beard.

* typo: I can honestly say I *have* lots of female friends .....

No.

It's not what they would like to do. Again it's not what we want it's what we deserve.

And we deserve equality, and, because of our irrationality, similarity breeds equality. It's not that I feel bad for girls who want a beard and so shun having one in solidarity.

It's not like that. Let me re-paint the picture in the lens of gay marriage.

Imagine a straight couple who won't get married because they are protesting gay marriage and won't do it until all people can. Okay.

But imagine another world where there is no hope of gay marriage legalization. Now imagine the same couple abstaining from marriage, but for a different reason - they don't want to distinguish/differentiate themselves from their gay brothers and sisters any more than they must, because the differences breed misunderstanding and discrimination. So they avoid marriage.

It's like that, like the second one, not the first one.