http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/jesus-loves-his-enemies-and-then-kills-them-all/

@croak as soon as Christians are finished paying their fines for the crusades This is honestly 100% the dumbest argument in history. I am not even a Christian, and this is beyond argument

How long did Islam attack Christians before the first crusade? The answer is 'a lot, and for a long time".

"A undergrad can't school me."

Our mistakes from our past should serve to guide us to the future.

We need to check everyone fromanywhere when they come into America.

And we do. Wow what a concept.

So if we check everyone from anywhere when they come into America, how do we have so many illegal aliens in the country?

You are correct that it is indeed "Wow what a concept" but fail to understand that concept doesn't always equal reality.

We check refugees. As extensively as possible, actually.

How many people come here illegally from regions of Civil War?

Which is what the thread is about lmao

Croak:

Here's a quick guide to making sure your joke is funny:
Don't punch down.

Holocaust denial isn't funny, surprisingly enough.

And clearly "As extensively as possible, actually" may not be good enough.

But you REALLY think there are no people in this country illegally from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan or Yemen? lmao

If you really believe that, then there is no use continuing any form of intelligent discussion. You are completely entitled to your fantasy beliefs.

Prove that there are.

Illegal immigration is a failure of beauracracy, not of the immigrants.

One thing that I never fully understood is whenever someone points out a displeasing attribute of the Islam religion, people are always quick to say, "yeah but what about Christians. They killed a bunch of Muslims in the crusade 1000 years ago. And Westboro Baptist church is hurting people's feelings. And etc."

No shit that Christianity may not be perfect. What does that have to do with anything about Islam.

(Although for the record Croak, fining the nearest mosque is a very terrible idea for so many different reasons. I think you should rethink that one.)

No one is blaming the immigrants.

People are saying the process can be improved.

Don't make illogical leaps of logic like that.

Prove that there are ZERO illegal immigrants from those countries.

KansasBoyd you are suggesting ending everything America stands for and turning us into a police state. In order to make sure we have no illegal immigrants in this country we would need to have checkpoints on every corner.

We already vet immigrants extensively. I am sure that their are some illegal immigrants in the United States from the majority of nations in the world. I doubt anyone is arguing this point. And the overwhelming majority are people who just want a better life for themselves. Are there some bad eggs, probably. But as noted we already do extreme vetting, especially from places where the threat is more pronounced. What President Trump has been calling for and you seem to be on board with is security theater. To give us the appearance of greater security to let us sleep easier. And the cost to pay for that appearance, is just little chucks of freedom here and there. I am not on board with that.

Okay, don't fine the nearest mosque. Close the ten nearest.

This is about a refugee halt. And half this thread is blaming them.

"Prove that there are ZERO illegal immigrants from those countries."

It's logically impossible to prove a lack of something. The burden of proof is therefore on you instead of me.

"KansasBoyd you are suggesting ending everything America stands for and turning us into a police state. In order to make sure we have no illegal immigrants in this country we would need to have checkpoints on every corner."

Not even in the same universe of anything I have said.

"We already vet immigrants extensively."

So there is no possibility of doing better? No reason to try to do better?

LOL! OK.

"To give us the appearance of greater security to let us sleep easier. And the cost to pay for that appearance, is just little chucks of freedom here and there. I am not on board with that."

You mean exactly like the TSA?

Or the left wing campaign of banning all guns?

You mean that kind of theater of security?

"This is about a refugee halt. And half this thread is blaming them."

And I have not taken part in that half of the thread that is blaming them, so to lump me in that group simply because you don't agree with what I am saying is juvenile.

As for "But what about Christians?" The point is *always* that the vast, vast majority of adherents to any religion are peaceful, loving people who want to raise strong healthy families. That's it.

Anyone who says one is more hateful than another needs to look more closely at their own sacred texts, especially those that never get talked about in church.

"It's logically impossible to prove a lack of something. The burden of proof is therefore on you instead of me. "

So I guess you can't logically prove the extinction of species or the eradication of diseases from the planet also then?

It is logically absurd to think there are ZERO illegal immigrants from the countries listed, so therefore the burden of proof is on you to prove the logically absurd.

Have you ever been to a mosque Croak? Do you know what they're purpose even is?

"And I have not taken part in that half of the thread that is blaming them, so to lump me in that group simply because you don't agree with what I am saying is juvenile."

You said no one was. I countered.

And proof of extinction lies first in proving that they existed in the first place, and then analyzing population trends. Something clearly observable. Those same establishments would still put the burden of proof on proving there are illegal immigrants.

@Jeff, the vast majority of both are peaceful yes, but there's still no denying that the political power Islam currently has over countries is resulting in very unpleasant things.
Yes, when Christianity had power like the catholic church it became very bad too. But it's not really relevant right now.
When current modern problems come up with Christianity, we should go against it as well. (And not go, "But Islam is worse")

@Fluminator: I think it is clear why Christianity was brought up in this instance. Neither Christianity nor Islam are perfect, but when one brings up the argument that the Islamic faith should pay for the atrocities of some of its perverted supporters, I think a similar reply about Christianity is fair. Christianity in its course is indirectly responsible for some gruesome ills just as Islam is.

Also, your choice of examples is a bit lacking. Most white power/racist hate groups have historically associated with Christianity. The Westboro church is a bunch of gross trolls, but people in the name of Christianity have committed atrocities (murders/terrorist acts) this century. And beyond that why downplay the role of Christian anti-semitism in the lead up to the holocaust? Perhaps the pinnacle achievement of humans capacity for hideousness. The argument that groups claiming Christian identity were terrible 1000 years ago but that is in the far past is ludicrous.

To be clear I do not think institutions of Christianity or Islam should be held responsible for the actions of deviant followers unless it is clear that they encouraged it. So if a particular mosque or church makes a call for this sort of behavior go after them civilly and criminally. I am just bringing up why the comparison was likely made.

Yes, the TSA as currently designed is a terrible waste of tax payer dollars. As well as an additional drain on our economy b/c of the time people spend in airports now.

I do not think it is worth our time or resources to try to do better if it comes at the expense of our freedoms. If it comes at the expense of America's position "as a city upon a hill."

But let us talk about the left wing conspiracy to ban all guns. Do you have evidence that supports this? As far as I know the platform of the Democratic party has never included that plank. No statewide officer, that I know of, has called for the banning of all guns. Where is the conspiracy?

I feel kind of bad for the NRA now that Donald Trump won. Gun sales have fallen precipitously. Without a devil in the white house who "will take our guns" the gun lobby suffers.

"You said no one was. I countered."

Fair enough then.

"And proof of extinction lies first in proving that they existed in the first place, and then analyzing population trends. Something clearly observable. Those same establishments would still put the burden of proof on proving there are illegal immigrants. "

so what you are saying is that the Earth was flat until someone proved it was round?

As I said previously, if you REALLY think that there are zero illegal immigrants from those countries please state in plain English that is your stance and I can move on from attempting intelligent conversation with you, cause you are living in an alternate reality which I am not able to understand.

@Jenga, agreed that I left out many ills of Christianity. (Westboro Baptist and Crusades are the ones I hear the most about by far though). But once against, most of the examples are still historical and not as much an issue right now. (I suspect I don't even need to say it but obviously there are still some issues Christians need to deal with)

I don't think anyone is too concerned about the historical conquests of Islam or bad things they did 200 years ago either.

Although I suppose the comparison between the two religions in this case was justified since it was in response to a really ludicrous suggestion.