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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
21 Jan 12 UTC
Corruption in American Government
How can a "Federal Prosecutor" invoke the Fifth Amendment in testimony before Congress and not lose their job immediately? I can understand invoking the Fifth, but not keeping your job as a federal prosecutor after doing it.
17 replies
Open
NikeFlash (140 D)
20 Jan 12 UTC
Would you rather be represented by trustees or delegates?
Dear political trolls,
Do you believe that we would be better off if we were represented trustees (who act in the best interest of the people they represent regardless of the popular opinion) or delegates (who act the way that the majority of the people that they represent, wether or not they believe it is in the best interest of the people)?
100 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Jan 12 UTC
americanselect.org
Forget the GOP primary.
1 reply
Open
acmac10 (120 D(B))
21 Jan 12 UTC
NFL Pick 'Em: CHAMPIONSHIP WEEK
AFC and the NFC all come down to this! Need to pick one correctly to stay alive. Will it be the Pats and their offense? The Ravens and the joke of their quarterback Flacco? The resurgence of Alex Smith and the 49ers? Or will it be Eli Manning and the Giants? PICK 'EM!
5 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
23 Jan 12 UTC
For your information.
http://windycityweasels.org/wdc

World DipCon,
Downtown Chicago, IL, USA, August 10-12, 2012
0 replies
Open
Partysane (10754 D(B))
23 Jan 12 UTC
5 Minute/Turn Game
So, is anyone up for this?
0 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
23 Jan 12 UTC
Hey You! Yes You!
This game needs a replacement for Russia! Help the cause!

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=74460
0 replies
Open
Barn3tt (41969 D)
23 Jan 12 UTC
EOG WTA Quickie
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=78583#gamePanel
16 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
23 Jan 12 UTC
Mod team
Please check your email
0 replies
Open
Bob Genghiskhan (1233 D)
23 Jan 12 UTC
The ethics of resignation.
I'm in a game with at least one utter moron, and several people who may or may not be. Is it ever OK to just quit a game because the competition is utterly uninteresting?
13 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
22 Jan 12 UTC
A call for EoG's
I'd really like to see more of these. You can learn a lot and get a good deal of perspective by listening to accounts of completed games this way. Post 'em up, people! Share the knowledge!
1 reply
Open
Bob Genghiskhan (1233 D)
22 Jan 12 UTC
EOG-Live Gunboat 167
7 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
22 Jan 12 UTC
Does anyone use PhotoScape?
All I want to do is put sunglasses on someone. Can't figure it out.
0 replies
Open
Dejan0707 (1608 D)
22 Jan 12 UTC
Election: number of voters larger than total population?
http://croatiantimes.com/news/General_News/2011-12-01/23557/Croatia_has_too_many_eligible_voters
1 reply
Open
krellin (80 DX)
22 Jan 12 UTC
To the Political Fools...
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/abc-projects-newt-gingrich-winner-south-carolina-primary-000512837.html

22 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 DX)
21 Jan 12 UTC
4 Tickets, Olympic Ceremony.
I've just realised that I have 4 tickets for the London 2012 Olympic Ceremony.
Happily surprised and wanted to share it :)
21 replies
Open
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
22 Jan 12 UTC
Newt Gingrich won South Carolina.
Discuss.
21 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
20 Jan 12 UTC
Midwest USA World Cup Team
Who's in it? I am and I think someone else wanted to join as well. We need 4 people plus a sub if someone CDs.
7 replies
Open
GOD (389 D)
22 Jan 12 UTC
one more player!!!!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=78213
0 replies
Open
octopus_seppuku (728 D)
14 Jan 12 UTC
President Romney
So this is the best you can come up with, huh?

Congratulations, America(ns).
74 replies
Open
fwancophile (164 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
Diplomacy Comments
Thoughts on playing the seven powers.
12 replies
Open
Dharmaton (2398 D)
19 Jan 12 UTC
Hope you Like BLONDE JOKES :)
Why do blondes do not nead to bleach? - They fell in the vat whilst baby.
12 replies
Open
HITLER69 (0 DX)
21 Jan 12 UTC
WORLD WAR 3
How soon? Involving who? Reasons why?

/discuss
26 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
21 Jan 12 UTC
This is Why...
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11381475/1/gingrich-leads-romney-40-to-26-poll.html?puc=_booyah_html_pla2&cm_ven=EMAIL_booyah_html

1 reply
Open
Leonidas (635 D)
20 Jan 12 UTC
Western Canada World Cup team
any interest out there to form our own team for this upcoming world cup?
2 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
20 Jan 12 UTC
Thats all folks
Leaving the site for personal reason
15 replies
Open
JECE (1248 D)
19 Jan 12 UTC
Ranking of web-based Diplomacy websites VI
This time it has been 13 months since the last time I did a ranking.

For some prior statistics, see threadID=477664, threadID=489951, threadID=513357, threadID=535114, threadID=538014 and threadID=662728.
25 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
19 Jan 12 UTC
Iowa Caucus Split: Santorum/Romney Tie, Paul Third...Does This Solidify The Ticket?
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1LENN_enUS459US459&aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=iowa+caucus
Romney/Santorum running for the GOP? Newt and Perry seem finished...that leaves Paul, and Romney's won most of the states, and Santorum has the mainstream support--is Paul done as a GOP candidate? 3rd party run? Totally out?
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Wait, so your argument justifying the rape of occupied Germany is the Nazis raped Soviet women? Sweet. Because raping civilians is a-okay, if the other guy does it first.

Holodomor was me being lazy and picking the first third that comes to mind. Still not convinced it was a natural disaster but I'll pick something else if you prefer.

Nice job not touching the Great Purge.

And what libs? I actually don't know any that hang with neo-Nazis. But yeah, neo-Nazis can go to hell, too. They're pretty sickening folks. So were the original Nazis, if that makes you feel better.

Doesn't change the fact that you're coming out in defense of some of the most disgraceful, disgusting acts of evil ever committed... which was the whole point of my post. You're right to condemn the Nazis, and perhaps you've a point that the Soviet Union is vilified more than it deserves; I can see that as valid.

But you're seriously defending the rape of millions of civilian women, the execution of thousands of political dissidents and a whole host of other crimes in the name of partisan ideology. You have got to step back and look at yourself at some point and realize that you can defend your political worldview without condoning some of the worst atrocities in human history.
Tolstoy (1962 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"Yeah, well, I would say that too if my family fought for the fascists in WWII"

Gosh, I didn't know communists believed in blood-guilt. And I actually had a larger number of relatives fighting against the fascists in WWII (3 'fascists' vs. at least 5 'anti-fascists' so far as I'm aware).

"Especially if I had a habit of rewriting history in their favor (ahem, Rothbard"

ROTFLMAO! I was just reading the constitutional adoption thread, and was marveling at the fact that you were arguing the 'revisionist' Rothbardian anti-ratification position as well as I could've.

"the Mises Institute and the Ron Paul "movement" is replete with Neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers. "

Another howler! Ludwig von Mises was an Austrian Jew who had to flee the Nazis, and about half of the people associated with the LMI are, in fact, Jewish.

PLEASE keep this up! This is better than a good standup routine!
Also, those poor Soviet soldiers. They just had to contain their bloodlust and not wipe entire villages of innocent civilians off the map. God forbid they actually be expected to be CIVILIZED. My heart cries out for them.
Ooh, missed another gem.

My trite anti-communism?

Yeah, that's it. I can't possibly find untold millions of people being horrifically tortured and executed in the name of partisan ideology to be morally repugnant and wrong on principle. I can only find it wrong because my political ideology is staunchly opposed to communism.

Your projection is honestly as frightening as your defense of these monsters. I highly recommend you stop and reassess. Like I said, you're more than capable of defending your ideology without defending the monsters that tried to implement it.
Tolstoy (1962 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"According to the Cato Institute only 2% of Americans identify as Libertarian. Keep dreaming."

Bzzzzt! Cato says that 10-20% of Americans identify as libertarian (which is what PE wrote, not Libertarian):

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa580.pdf

"Not all Americans can be classified as liberal or conservative. In particular, polls find that some 10 to 20 percent of voting-age Americans are libertarian, tending to agree with conservatives on economic issues and with liberals on personal freedom. The Gallup Governance Survey consistently finds about 20 percent of respondents giving libertarian answers to a two-question screen."
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
@Eden:

How is the "war" over...Paul still hasn't won a state, so how are Moderate-Radical-Libertarian Right Wing Wars at an end?

Romney/Paul/Santorum are all still going strong, so it seems each sect still has a dog in that race...and in fact, only Paul hasn't won an actual state, so...how have the Libertarians won? Because they're younger?

So were the young Independents that voted Obama in 2008 (how quickly everyone on the Right seems to forget the LEFT won in '08 in large part because of the youth vote, and now both touts RP as appealing to the young as if that were necessarily-good WHILE slamming Obama--elected by those same youngsters--at every turn...)
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
@Putin:

Really...just stop. Please.

You're making actual Democrats look bad...hell, you're starting to make mapleleaf out to be better and more mature person to conversate with
The war for the future of the GOP is over. We won it. Libertarianism has absolutely exploded in the past decade or so among the young right and it's only going to continue to grow. The future of the GOP is the libertarian youth.

This election, next election, whatever, doesn't matter. The establishment right is dying, religious evangelism is dying, and we're just sitting back, waiting to ascend.

And yeah, the progressive left is young, too. Progressives have a head start in the race for the future. I'm not forgetting that... I probably have as many progressive friends as I do libertarian friends, and I expect the national trend holds up that progressivism is the future of the left.
semck83 (229 D(B))
21 Jan 12 UTC
Hmm, well. A very interesting take, PE. As a libertarian myself, I would applaud such a state of affairs, but I suspect you're overstating things just a bit. Each party will always have at least two factions vying for supremacy. In the GOP, the religious right isn't going away (remember that a lot of Paul's supporters are among them, too, which works because RP is in the intersection. But get a hard-line libertarian and things will be less cozy). And on the left, the blue collar workers won't be leaving any time soon.
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"tending to agree with conservatives on economic issues and with liberals on personal freedom."

Except "libertarians" oppose civil rights legislation and support gun control, so that's not true. And most find excuses for being anti-choice and pro "states rights" over gay equality, libertarians are just Republicans who want drugs legalized.
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
*rather oppose gun control
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"You're making actual Democrats look bad."

Considering you're not an "actual" Democrat but rather an opportunist who blows with whatever is popular at the moment, I could care less what you think.
largeham (149 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
When will you guys listen? Saying 'I could care less' makes no sense as it says you care somewhat already.
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
21 Jan 12 UTC
Putin you admitted that you are not a Democrat; you said you were a Communist.
You are making communists look bad in fact.
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
Not really. It's along the same lines as "I could give a damn".
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
Are you a Communist?
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"Considering you're not an "actual" Democrat but rather an opportunist who blows with whatever is popular at the moment, I could care less what you think."

1. I am a registered Democrat...so yeah--an actual Democrat. Sorry.

2. Because I'm willing to be open-minded and hear both parties--rather than dogmatically voting for one and demonizing another--I just blow with whatever's popular?

Well, better than being a blind, egotistical, short-sighted dogmatist with a repugnant and self-important view of myself.
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
21 Jan 12 UTC
@Putin:
No I am not; I am not even American, but I am well-informed enough to tell for example, that the Republican candidates are mostly if not all trash.
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"1. I am a registered Democrat...so yeah--an actual Democrat. Sorry."

Meaningless. Registered Democrats who vote Republican are like confirmed Catholics who join the Masons.

"2. Because I'm willing to be open-minded and hear both parties--rather than dogmatically voting for one and demonizing another--I just blow with whatever's popular?"

See this mentality is why it's not surprising you don't like democracy much, and have a thing for Philosopher-Kings. Because all political activity to you is about *you*, and working for the collective interest and compromising, which is what is required in a democratic system, is anathema and "dogmatic" to you.
semck83 (229 D(B))
21 Jan 12 UTC
"See this mentality is why it's not surprising you don't like democracy much, and have a thing for Philosopher-Kings. Because all political activity to you is about *you*, and working for the collective interest and compromising, which is what is required in a democratic system, is anathema and "dogmatic" to you. "

No, putin, I think that what he meant by dogmatic was the part where you have rigid beliefs and aggressively cut out from the world any facts that don't mesh with them.

Actually I'm not even sure what in obi's post you took as being anti-compromise.
Uh, wait a minute, hold on. You know libertarians that support gun control? That is really interesting, because I was almost certainly expecting the "Libertarians are a bunch of paramilitary reactionaries who want to keep their assault rifles and RPGs so they can form statewide white-power militias and oppress brown people" line. Seriously, libertarians supporting gun control is... fascinating. That pretty much flies right in the face of the whole "government shouldn't mandate to you what you can and cannot do" thing if you let government disarm people.

Civil rights legislation, depends. Libertarian political thought has as a central tenet the notion of looking at individuals as individuals, and granting rights as individuals, rather than to specific groups. So presumably there would be some minor level of disagreement with the more technical aspects of most race-oriented legislation, even legislation which clearly has very good intentions and is overall a very good thing for society. That said, this nuanced objection really should not be taken to mean that libertarians are anti-minority rights, because libertarians who actually genuinely follow their own principles should seek to correct situations wherein minorities are persecuted or denigrated to second-class citizenship for racial reasons - as such situations, again, grant (or really in this case remove) rights against a group, instead of individuals. I'm thinking that ultimately it would have to come down to opposition to the wordings of specific legislation instead of a blanket opposition to the legislation in general.

There is indeed a wing of libertarians who hold that fetuses are owed legal protection as human beings. I find the whole question of deciding at what point life begins to be a rather confusing one to sort out, and that I have trouble refuting on a moral basis such arguments, because the question seems extremely subjective. This is why, I think, the states' rights argument is popular for this question, because it gives communities a more direct influence over their own abortion policy, and since the question really doesn't seem to be very black-and-white at all, I can definitely understand reservations about enforcing a black-and-white federal policy. (That said, after sitting down with the issue a few weeks ago and again debating it last night, I find the resolution of Roe v. Wade to be a rather good solution to the abortion question on a federal level, so I guess I'm pretty solidly pro-choice.)

Gay marriage is another matter, and I've to admit it's somewhat disappointing watching my own libertarian acquaintances on the question. Some are rather devout Catholics who appeal to rather antiquated natural law philosophical arguments to defend the notion of 'traditional' marriage, and who want government out of the marriage question entirely. I find their philosophical basis pretty laughable, and while I empathize with the sentiment of saying government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all, it's not going away anytime soon. Personally I think that, as a contract between multiple individuals (generally two), government shouldn't meddle with restricting who should be allowed to enter into marriage. Provided that all parties involved can and do legally consent to entering the contract, I don't understand where government should have the authority to prevent certain such contracts from being made. Government's role is to enforce contracts which are made, not to mandate who can make them.

And while I know I certainly don't speak for all or even most libertarians, I can say from my own observations that we generally tend to be pro-marriage equality, pro-civil rights and anti-gun control, with abortion again being a mixed bag. Combined with drug and prostitution legalization, a non-interventionist foreign policy, and opposition to Constitutional overreaches like the PATRIOT Act or the NDAA, I think the label of "Republicans who want drugs legalized" is rather unrepresentative of our ideology.
Also, still waiting to know if you think it's okay to rape millions of innocent women just because some douchebags in a different uniform did it to people of your nationality first, if it's okay to murder thousands of people just because they disagree with you on a matter of policy, and if you need me to get a third example or if we can just roll with the Holodomor (and if so, if it's okay to starve millions of people because they disagree with you politically and would like political institutions which represent them and their nation's interests). Would also be cool to know the rationale behind any of those being okay.

And if you could add in whether or not you actually believe someone can only object to moral atrocities if they're perpetrated by people with whom one disagrees politically, and if so, why, that would be awesome.

---

semck: Religious right isn't going to disappear, no, but my generation is probably the least religious in American history, and at the very least is among the least supportive of religion guiding or dictating social and economic policy. And I realize I'm kinda backtracking a bit after mentioning my libertarian acquaintances who support the Catholic Church's position on marriage, but those guys really are in the minority as far as I can tell. So yeah, it's not going to die out, necessarily, but it is fading.

And then I'm not really sure what differentiates "blue-collar worker" leftists from progressives, except maybe social policy, which is again based mostly on the religious factor mentioned before. That said, I'm not especially sharp on what you mean by the blue-collar workers.
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"You know libertarians that support gun control? "

I corrected that PE.
semck83 (229 D(B))
21 Jan 12 UTC
Oh, and what about the Great Purge, putin?
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"No, putin, I think that what he meant by dogmatic was the part where you have rigid beliefs and aggressively cut out from the world any facts that don't mesh with them.

Actually I'm not even sure what in obi's post you took as being anti-compromise."

Then how odd then that I'm simultaneously a communist who votes for and supports the overall very centrist, milquetoast Democratic Party. You guys can't get your Putin hate straight. All your criticisms are mutually contradictory and make little sense.

He's anti-compromise because he can't tolerate working for the greater good of an organization. Working for and supporting an organization even if you don't agree with it 100% is "dogmatic". So he's willing to vote Republican if he doesn't get his way, because politics for him is an entirely self-interested affair.
Oh whoops, my bad re: gun control. Redacted. Other things I think still stand.
semck83 (229 D(B))
21 Jan 12 UTC
Oh I see. What if the "organization" he cares about is the US, not the Democratic party?
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
And how does the US benefit from weak or non-existent political parties, a society of free floating individuals where nobody works with like-minded people and everybody votes for whatever individual maximizes their own interest?

Party de-alignment destroys democracy. Unaffiliated voters are a harbringer of political chaos. There is a reason why we are experiencing more radical shifts back and forth between elections at the same time that more and more people refuse to identify with anything.

Party Dealignment destroys the civil society which buttresses political democracy.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"He's anti-compromise because he can't tolerate working for the greater good of an organization."

Ummm...where'd I say that? When I said "Gee, I want to hear BOTH candidates before I vote for the Leader of the Free World?"

You're right--that's not a fair compromise of me at all, totally dogmatic...

"Working for and supporting an organization even if you don't agree with it 100% is "dogmatic"."

OH! Once again, so right, Putin!

Because we ALL know that yiu have to support someone or soemthing 100%, without any reservations about any aspect of their life or ideas or policy whatsoever, or it doesn't count!

And there are SO many peole that we can all follow 100%

Like Obama...oh, wait, I like him overall, but disagree with him on some things...erm...

Like Kennedy! Oh, wait, I really think he screwed the pooch with the Bay of Pigs...and cheating on his wife...damn...

Like Plato! Oh, wait...I DON'T support a totalitarian regime, no matter how much I support an elective meritocracy...and I don't think I can agree with his views on science that Newton effectively shot to hell...oops.

Like Newton! Wait...Einstein...

Like Einstein! Oh, wait, he was wrong about a few things, too...

Like Hawking! OH, right, the black hole error, right...

LIKE SHAKESPEARE!

Oh, wait--even Shakespeare wrote some pretty poor plays and poems that aren't great at all...



I'm sorry, you were saying, again--100% devotion?
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
"So he's willing to vote Republican if he doesn't get his way, because politics for him is an entirely self-interested affair."

Ummm...

1. Politics IS a self-interested affair...so sayeth Machiavelli, and Hobbes, and even Locke says we join a state because of our self-interest.

2. I like how "Vote Republican" is a psuedonym for "Vote Evil!" here...I mean, we all know voting against our party and for what we believe in is BAD BAD BAD!

3. You make me laugh.

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73 replies
GOD (389 D)
21 Jan 12 UTC
Join!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=78213
0 replies
Open
The Czech (39715 D(S))
21 Jan 12 UTC
Summer Gunboat 2 Q
Can we unpause now? Everyone has final orders in.
0 replies
Open
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