And that is when it becomes the kind of metagaming that people tend to get banned for, you can choose to play the Ancient Mediterranean version which only takes 5 players, you can play on vdip 1 on 1 like I already mentioned. Though arguing with me about this is fairly pointless since I am not a mod and they clearly decided that your friends actions made the game unfair to everyone else involved.

He has not made it unfair at all just because you have some relationship with someone outside the game does not mean you have to work with them, and europe is simply put the most enjoyable game mode there is

And while that is true I am only going by your earlier statement:

"They only want to play with us, because they don't want to be fucking destroyed"

And again: This implies that you are unfairly communicating with each other, which is unfair to all the other players who don't "want to be fucking destroyed" either.

2. No Meta-gaming
You can't make alliances for reasons outside a game, such as because you are friends, relatives or in return for a favour in another game. This is known as metagaming and is against the rules because it gives an unfair advantage to those involved. If you are worried that you can't stab someone because you want to stay friends, then that's fair enough but you can't join a game with them.
its very clear,what dont you understand?you are relatives and clearly not going to stab your litle brother "cause he doesnt want to be destroyed"
i had this problem when i introduced my cousin to the game but there are some solutions:
1-you can play 1on1 in v-dip
2-you can sit with him and teach him on your own games(your acount)as a sitter
3-you can teach him on his games(his acount)not being in the same game

ForNarnia, this user banned for breaking our rules, perhaps to an extent that you were not fully aware of. You seem to be assuming that this is related to a relatively milder issue of meta-gaming, however that was not the only factor in this case.

Just to be clear, my previous post was addressed toward ForNarnia and in regards to the banned user MPM3di4t0R.

Also, I made a typo in omitting the word "was" in what should have been "this user was banned".

its not an acusation but a quote:
" He has a brother. I have a brother. They are learning how to play. They only want to play with us, because they don't want to be fucking destroyed"
isnt it a declaration of metagaming?

PS we don't even stop people who know each other from playing together, even if it is an open game with other people involved. This is allowed as long as the play between the people who know each other is comparable to that between those who don't.

Consistent cooperation and alliances then constitutes metagaming and is dealt with. I always tell this to people I email about metagaming - it seems to be something few on this site understand unfortunately.

And even more unfortunately it seems very few people are capable or willing to play with people they know and not giving them special treatment. I don't see why. I think stabbing your friends is even more fun than stabbing strangers, you know, cause you get to see them cry and all that. fun.

This is retarded. Anyone whocan accuse FortNarnia of cheating based on his forum post above is reading far too into things and really needs to work on their geeve.

I will vouch for Monarch Park the school. They provided me with many a great competitor in my High School athletics career.

Since I know the school, am I allowed to play in games with FortNarnia?

Monarch Park had a great two gym set up and I always enjoyed their preseason basketball tournament.

@Lando: You shouldn't play with any Canadians, to be on the safe side.

Surprised people know Monarch. Thank you Lando for understanding. And my apologies to the WebDiplomacy staff, but I think that what qualifies as meta-gaming is too tight. Everybody has biases, and you can't control that. I will be more inclined to help my brother, then any random stranger. Same thing with any friend of mine. And all of us have experienced people with biases against us. I know MPM3di4t0R experienced someone earlier this week who asked him to lay off because he was doing "Multis". And he is the one who got banned? Come on guys, don't point fingers at him.

If I am in a non-anon game with a bunch of people, I will certainly use what I know about each to my advantage. I have shared PM conversations with many people on this site. If say Czech and myself go into a game together, should we tell the whole board that we know each other from tons of live gunboats and then proceed to make sure we don't ally?

Of course not.

@Kevin.Elliot: Yeah, you are completely right. I have had this argument about metagaming with people on here before. Unconscious biases and personal knowledge always will seep into your play, its impossible to avoid.

And the Toronto contingent grows...

Let's get a face to face game going sometime.

Definitely. Unfortunately, I currently live closer to Listowel than the big city.

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I'm totally up for Toronto FtF.

Yeah, I could be down for a Toronto FtF.

There are definitely some others on here too. I think Maple Leaf and Feces are from Toronto. And there's a guy on here named Cujo so he might be too...

For me to have the best chance of attending/organizing this thing it probably need to be after tax season.

Not that I'm willing to organize it, but I'm sure there are enough people in the area (if we include Montreal and northern NY) to make Toronto a legitimate location for a WebDip FtF tournament.

that would be fun. Also if it was in Montreal/northern NY. Would hundy book a day off work for that.

@Kevin.Elliot said: I will be more inclined to help my brother, then any random stranger.

That might be okay, but you really should announce that you are playing with him at the start of the game. For example:

Russia: Hi everyone. My brother is in this game and I am more likely to ally with him that some random stranger.
Turkey: Ditto... don't mess with my Bro!
Russia: We're not metagaming though. I might consider stabbing him, but I can't promise anything. Good luck! :-)

That Kevin Elliott post was by me on my brothers account. LOL. I love how this thread got hijacked into a Toronto FtF thread. I am seriously down for this. I am thinking a internet cafe could work, but no idea if anybody has another idea.

How many people are aware of meta issues that were harshly punished?
How many people know any meta punishments made?

The meta rules are not new nor unique to webdiplomacy, but is a diplomacy concept adapted to the online form of the game.
The rules encapsulate a large area of gray, most of which we deal with on a case by case basis. Usually, we talk to the users, make them aware, and make them stop. Sometimes we get harsh, but unless people can point me to specific cases and unfair rulings you can't claim we are harsh nor too tight with our rulings on meta.

This is MPMs second time being banned...

I remember when I was almost banned...
It was my first interaction with Thucy, too.

@ForNarnia - Neither you, nor I (nor MPM for that matter) are completely privy to all the mod discussions and evidence. It takes a heel of a lot of evidence for the mods to ban, especially for metagaming.

@Frank, et. al. - I agree that knowledge of individuals will always come into play in non-anon game, but the key is to be willing to stab if the situation calls for it. In short, don't go easy on someone just because they are your friend or relative. I hope one day to meet fortknox as he lives somewhere within about 25 miles of me, and I consider him a friend from here, but I'll stab him if he leaves himself open and it gets me a better position (like a win or reduces the draw) and I may not even ally with him to begin with if I hear a good argument from another player to go after him from the start.

Likewise, I introduced Crazyter to the site (Ms. Stabby Stabberson to most of us) and yet the game decides whether I ally with her and how far I trust her or if/whne I stab her the same as any other player on this site.

The key to acceptable metagaming is to let position and the goal of winning or stopping the solo guide your actions. Worrying about the RL relationship and not doing certain actions you would do with other players because of it is metagaming and you should avoid playing with that player.

YES Draugnar, that is absolutely correct, and exactly why MPM should be unbanned! He has stabbed the shit out of me, I have stabbed him, he has stabbed ryanrogers, rian.lancaster Philo.Farnsworth, and a ongoing list of player who we play a lot of games with. Please, to all of the moderators and Admins, unban MPM he doesn't need this. He did nothing wrong.

@ForNarnia - Again, you and I don't know all the details. There must be more to it.