"I might tell the gay men it's wrong to do what they're doing, but I wouldn't physically stop them."

Would you really? I mean, if you saw two men at a party that were acting *very* friendly, and who were getting up to go to the bedroom, what would you do?

Somehow I doubt you would say "hey boys, I hope you aren't thinking about doing what I think you are about to be doing! You know... in the ancient levant people got stoned to death for that shit!"

Even more unlikely methinks would be interrupting them in the act; "Hey you, get your mouth outta there!!"

Though it would be hilarious. :)

"To seek rule from man is to reject rule from God" 1 Samuel 8.

What if men claim authority in the name of God? That particular justification can be found many times in Biblical scripture.

Also, do you not recognize the role of Christianity in maintaining patriarchal rule for many, if not most, European nations across their history? This isn't even to mention the degree to which religion is invoked in America to justify expansion or solidification of government power.

@Friendly Sword: Yeah, I wouldn't stop them there, but if I has a friend was gay, everyone once in a while I'd try to tell him how and why it's wrong.

@Synalon: The Bible isn't just any old "ancient book". In Isaiah, it mentions that the world is round far before anybody knew it was. In Job, it mentions that the Earth is "hanging over nothing". That shows that he knew (because of God) That the Earth was not resting on top of somthing, but floating in space.
And, if you realize that the "days" in Genesis are actually eras, and that God was the one that conrolled evolution, then you know that Genesis accurately reflects the creation of the universe.

@Friendly Sword: That is caused by misinterpretation of scripture. People think God wanted government when he actually hates it. And about claiming authority in the name of God: The kings of Israel ruled in the name of God, but as evidenced by 1 Samuel 8, it still was not a good thing.

@FS - The Gods of Pedantry(capitalize the Gods' names please, you insolent snot) require you to remove your footwear and get on your belly, in order to respectfully apologize.

I'm just trying to help. Being helpful, makes me happy.

Far more importantly, you didn't tell me whether or not you would eat shellfish, CM.

Snails or oysters?

@Synalon: There were three types of laws in Leviticus. There were the priestly laws, that only applies to priests. There were the moral laws, that applied to everyone in Israel, and are also sins for everyone else, although the punishments that are described were only for the Israelites. Homosexuality is in this group. Then there were the civil laws, which applied to the Israelited only. No one else has to follow them. Eating Shellfish is in this category. So I'm okay with eating shellfish.

I assume oysters?

Having just read Leviticus here: http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/leviticus/intro.htm it seems to me that homosexuality and rules against eating shellfish are in the same category, as both of their chapters being with "Speak to the Israelites and tell them". This has forced me to conclude that either both laws are meant to apply equally to everyone, or that both laws are meant only for the Israelites.

Perhaps you are just trying to pick and choose which laws you like and dislike.

@ hammac

Every law-abiding American citizen has a right to carry (a) weapon(s) on their person, concealed or unconcealed. Unfortunately, the gun-control douchebags think that the Second Amendment only applies to the "militia" (National Guard). What good would a militia be if they were unarmed? The drafters of the Constitution weren't redundant morons. They wouldn't issue that right to just the militia. That would be redundant. The Second Amendment is just as important as any other amendment. You can't pick and choose what parts of the Constitution are valid. It's all or nothing. I hate it when liberals say "The Constitution was ratified in the 18th century. It was a different world back then. We need to interperete the Constitution differently to compensate." Yeah, differently. Not incorrectly. It's bullshit that people can't carry guns anymore in some states. If I'm a responsible, law-abiding adult, what's wrong with me slinging an AR-15? Besides, it's a crime deterrent. If some gay guy walks up to me and starts touching me inappropriately, he's an idiot, because he doesn't know if I'm gay or straight, and if the latter is true, he doesn't know what I've got under my jacket or on my waist.

If some queer did that to me, I'd point my gun at him and tell him "You're sexually harassing me. Get the fuck away from me before I shoot."

I'm assuming if you actually shot the guy you would probably go to prison. It's a teensy bit of an overreaction.

YEah, well, Leviticus also makes reference to insects with wings that go about on four feet. Last I checked, winged insects from the common housefly to the lady bug, bumble bee, and grasshopper all have six feet.

This is one that has always gotten me...

Leviticus 11:39 “And if any animal which you may eat dies, whoever touches its carcass shall be unclean until the evening."

Does this mean the person who chopped the neck of the chicken is unclean and do you have to eat all your food alive?

I wouldn't shoot him, but it would be enough to get him away from me, and hopefully enough to make him think twice before doing it to anyone else.

Okay, but gay guys are kind of unlikely to walk up to someone and just start randomly touching them. I would imagine that if any group is more likely to behave like that than any other, it would be heterosexual men with women. If at all.

I won't disagree with that, but that's what this thread is about.

@Synalon: If I had to choose between those two options, I would say that they only applied to the Israelites, however, just because they are in the same section doesn't meen they are the same type. Both of those types apply to all Israelites, one applies to others too. However, now I am undecided between whether they all apply just to the Israelites, or if there actually are specific types (I just got that from another Christian). I'll have to read Leviticus to figure it out. But either way, it doesn't really matter, as I'm not gay.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/drlaura.asp

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

@Draugnar: And what is the verse about the four-legged insect?

@TGM: I hate gun control too. Murderes and Robbers will still get guns, but I won't have any to defend myself. (Well, I personally still would, but most non-criminals won't) The gun control people then start citing little kids accidentally killing themselves with their parent's guns. But what if a little kid accidentally killed himself with his parent's knife? Should knives then be banned? Of course not. So guns shouldn't be banned either.

@Stratagos: Okay, after that I am now leaning toward all laws in the Old Testament except the Ten Commandments applying only to Israelites. So all of the things you mention were for Israelites only, Stratagos. God's Word is unchanging, but we don't have to obey those laws because they were meant for Israelites.

looool

So it's ok to be unless you're an Israeli?

Do you realize how incredibly asinine that sounds?

okay actually wait, are you saying now you don't think homosexuality (and any of those other things) is a sin? Because that would be cool.

I closed it out already, but it is the same chapter and falls right after the verse about shellfish.

ok to be gay. For some reason that didn't parse

"Not that there's anything wrong wth that..."

Sorry. My best friend and I used to joke about that one line from Seinfeld (he was gay) all the time. I miss Gary. And he was living proof, in my eyes, that there is no way God could create a person as gentle and kind as him and then punish him because he was gay, the way God made him. Leviticus is just fucked up. Always has been, always will be.

Don't worry about it Draug, as long as he didn't slice off the end of his dick the Lord thought he was ok. Or something.