Enough for what?

To justify cancelling or drawing the game early I think. We had a discussion about a minor variant that said if two CDs occur, everyone who is left is honor bound to draw.

If it's very early (pre 1902) I'd say draw at any CD. Not too much has been invested, no reason to play through a broken game.

To trigger a draw vote out of anyone with honor in the game.

I say 2 cd's and game should be drawn.

It's not balanced otherwise and a waste of playing the game out. This generally leads to further cd's once those not near a cd power get annoyed that no one will draw

I vote to draw or cancel after two CDs, unless the effect of each CD cancels the other out. For example, England and Turkey CDing still leaves a pretty reasonable balance, whereas England and Germany CDing practically guarantees a French victory.

@Aussie

A game is not balanced with any CDs.

normally two SCs, unless the one guy who CDs is England or Germany, then I vote draw

@ abgemacht- yes i know, but say if Austria cd's, then there are 4 countries that can benefit... however if England cd's only 2 can, so therefore it's MORE unbalanced.

But ending a game on the 2nd turn all because ONE player cd's is not right.

After all, i doubt the others nearby will offer a draw.

However, i do agree that there should never be a cd. It's a sign off a piss poor player and a loser

I don't like playing with cds but as a chronic live game player sometimes you have to play with them regardless to actually get a game going

@Aussie

I'm not sure it's that simple. If Austria CDs, it could actually really hurt Turkey. Italy and Russia could easily gang up with no one to help him.

"But ending a game on the 2nd turn all because ONE player cd's is not right."

Why? Games can easily last months. Why waste your time? By the 2nd year you've invested almost nothing.

Sorry for making myself sound like a noob, but what's a CD?

Civil Disorder. Missing two pahses in a row in which you have orders to place puts your nation in CD so that someone else can buy it out from under you. It's considered poor form to CD.

Civil disorder- aka when u leave a game and don't enter any orders

Civil Disorder.

In the board game, it refers to not entering a move. On this site it refers to not making a move for 3 (?) turns. The player loses their points and have to rejoin if they want to continue to play.

yeah but it defeats the purpose of playing- ab... so are you saying regardless of how long the game is played for, a cd is a cd and therefore deserves a draw?

2 turns, abgemacht, not three. However, if the player has no retreats or builds, it could take as many as 4 actual turns to CD.

"yeah but it defeats the purpose of playing"

Sorry, I don't know what that means.

"so are you saying regardless of how long the game is played for, a cd is a cd and therefore deserves a draw?"

Uhhh....no...that's not what I said at all. I very clearly said if the game is very early it should be cancelled/drawn.

Oh, and they just have to log back in to the game before someone buys out their position. They don't have to rejoin the game and contribute more money, although that would be a great way to punish CDers: make them pay to get back in.

Is this directed at me bob?

Abgemacht- ur the one who said you were drunk- so go have another corona

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH

What the fuck are you talking about!

Corona is for catamites and women.

@centurion

Yes and no. I do think that game should have been a draw. However, you weren't the only one refraining from voting draw. Also, I am genuinely curious as to when people think CDs irrevocably taint the game.

Yeah it probably should have but it was very hard to resist the desire to solo after struggling along in a stalemate with france for that period.

Yeah, Corona is a poof drink or for women, correct. Certainly not a real mans drink

Yep another brilliant end game by folks with more than 1000 playing for their ghost rating. I just can't win.

Corona is a fine (although not Dos Equis) Mexican beer. As long as it is drunk directly from the bottle, not poured into a glass, it is fine. Although, I have been rather enjoying Sam Adam's Summer Ale more and more this year.

Excuse me? You could have stalemated me (nah not really) but at least tried.

Your little snipe doesn't even make sense

Why try when the other two players are attacking me rather than form up a stalemate? It seems to me that all you experienced players get where you are by helping one another out. No real skill, just rub shoulders long enough and you turn on the new folks to help maintain a bullshit order.

I see a n00b whining cause he didn't get preferential treatment. JetJaguar, I usser you that the players on this site will stab each other if the timing is right. But the experienced players at the top of their game don't leave themselves open to stabs and, therefore, tend to work together because that will get them individually their best results. Play the game for 20 odd years or more as some of us have and you might discover how to diplome and cover your bases while still expanding. It's a balancing act that takes years to develop and a lifetime to master.

Something got cut there (stupid glidepoint on the laptop...) but it must not have been too important because the essence of what I was saying is still in the post.

Bullshit Draugnar. Experienced players would rather let another experienced player when before allowing a n00b who has played well to be part of a draw or punish a n00b because he wasn't an automatic ally he's supposed to be from the onset. Most of this experienced player is a better player stuff is garbage if you ask me. There's no way to defend yourself in this game when it's 3 on 1. Everyone who has half a brain knows this.

The fact of the matter is that all these experienced players are looking out for one another rather than giving everyone a fair go. That's what I've learned tonight.

10000000 cds are more than enuff lol

Seriously... why argue?

CD's are part of any game, for a variety of reasons. Deal with it, or leave the site

Or play with better people...

True, but one cannot tell when one is playing anon games?!

Well, not playing anon games seems like a good solution to that problem, no? Or, create an anon game for 7 specific people. That way, you know who you're playing with but not what country they are.

I wouldn't say that experienced players play favourites, but they do tend to draw more. Maybe its just because they develop a balance of power and maintain it, breaking it would mean death. yayager, are you referring to a specific game?

yes they do, if its not anon... if it is, then maybe not

@Aussie

You've played 3 games (not counting world variant). Do you really think you can form a good opinion on the majority of experienced players with that sample?

I agree with De Gaulle, CDs are going to happen and when they do, act accordingly. I don't think you should be forced to draw/cancel just because someone fails to participate in the game.

@ yayager & JetJaguar:

I regard myself as a relatively experienced player, and I can assure you that in my experience there is no 'old boys network' of experienced players deliberately ganging up on newbies.

To me, your whining just sounds like sour grapes from a pair of bad losers.

gameID=34928

What's even funnier is that the game which spurred JetJaguar's plaintive whine about "experienced players ganging up on newbies", was a GUNBOAT. Let that sink in for just a moment.

Also, as one of the two other players in the game who were trying to get England and Russia to agree to a draw, my attacks on Jet Jaguar's Russia took the form of supporting CDed French Munich to hold, so that Russia couldn't take it from Berlin and Silesia, and supporting CDed Austrian Trieste to hold, so that Russia couldn't take it from Vienna and Budapest. Oh, and I guess I bounced Russia out of Tyrolia once or maybe twice.

It was anonymous I had no idea who was who.

You circle jerk