So, I think gameID=143236 demonstrates that well.

The biggest mistake France makes in that game is a bad guess in F01. From then, the board is against him because no northern power wants a French ally who doesn't control Marseilles. I don't think it's incompetent French play.

* and CAPT Brad deciding utterly throw the game for zero reason whatsoever...

If it pissed you off HR, it was worth the 'toss', especially since i am one of the great solo stoppers unless double-crossed!!!

So... you're *not* one of the great solo stoppers?

I am also one of the great solo stoppers unless I'm not.

I always do well in my games unless I get stabbed.

I'm so great I sometimes stop my own solos.

gameID=143236 is pretty good, but really it's just a lone lunge at Marseilles with a single unit from Venice, with follow up when that succeeds. That's not the same thing as the full out initial attack that @SuperMario0727 asked about.

Teach me, obi wan.

@slypups: I don't think that a full out attack against anyone is a good idea as italy. As uclabb points out above, a major strength of Italy is that you *can* attack everyone. Why would you trade this strength away just to threaten someone with everything you have?

I'm a huge fan of Ven->Pie, as so many of the "strong" french openings assume that Italy won't do that.

I don't think there's value in going to Tuscany, because it's blocked unless Piedmont gets in, and you have better things to be doing with that unit.

I think the move to Piedmont could be considered as "throwing everything you can against France", as the fleet can't meaningfully be used until 1902 (and it may as well get Tunis on the way), and the second army can't contact a French centre unless Piedmont gets in.

Critically, it's unlikely that France is in position to kick you out of Marseilles if Piedmont does get in, so a new army can almost always move to Piedmont from Venice when that does happen.

I think it's just more efficient for an all out attack on France to consist only of Ven->Pie in S01.

The beauty of the Tuscan move is that you clearly signal friendship to Austria (rather than moving to Ven and possibly going Ven -> Tri, Pie -> Tyr in Autumn), whilst also having the option of either following up to Pie if you think Mar is really likely to be a gain for you (IE. There's an EGI), or the planned move in 90% of cases - a convoy to Tunis

Another advantage of the Tuscan move is that it signals to the board that you have no idea what you're doing.

Ah, lulling them into a false sense of security. Yes, that is another advantage. ;)

Keeping up the illusion all the way to the end is sure to fool them: gameID=184194

In any game without Brad, that would've been a comfortable 3WD. :p

A move to Tuscany now signals you want to make others think you don't know what you're doing, but really says to everyone that you've just read this thread and are implementing what you read here, showing yourself to be immersed in strategic knowledge from these forums. You know, a nut-job liable to do anything.

@A_Tin_Can
Aha! What's that, I see? An army in Tuscany? Well, it's settled then. Clearly an army in Tuscany is beneficial.

Italy could have had it all in gameID=184194 if he had just supported France back into Marseilles in fall 1901, depriving France of a build and preventing a fleet build there.

This is an example of an early French attack against a competent French player: gameID=183885

A couple of tactical slip ups in Germany, followed by a not paying enough attention to Diplomacy (resulting in a short sighted stab from Austria) cost me a good result. But I think the opening is largely strong.

ATC, teach me your ways...
How did you managed to convince Austria to I've you Trieste in that game, and then for everyone to help you into Munich? It baffles me what some people can convince other to do sometimes.

this was a pretty good stop: gameID=186293

this one too gameID=186199
here is one that Yoyo complained about: gameID=185273
this was a scary one for red-lion: gameID=184954

I know it's mad Marx and all, but a France that lets Germany walk into Burgundy and Italy into Marseilles in 1901 and then Germany into Paris in 1902 isn't exactly the kind of French play that screams "competent" to me.

ATC totally changed how I played Italy to where I've actually soloed but I still find the initial French attack takes some luck to get a good chunk before Emgland or Germany take advantage and a France that isn't vindictive against you.

Just gonna put this back here again: gameID=184194

My current thinking is that you don't actually want England and Germany in on a French attack - it helps if you maybe have one, but both is too much. And I think you can be successful with none.

Ogion, I didn't know I'd had such an impact on your game! What was your main change?

A_Tin_Can: Regarding gameID=143236, why on earth would France have ordered Spa to hold in Fall 1902? At least that order was pretty incompetent. By the way, what are dummy accounts?

Peregrine Falcon: To survive in a dangerous world, A-H and Italy usually work together. A-H often cedes Tri so as to demonstrate that it is forgoing naval build-up. The support to Mun seems pretty straightforward too, although it's not clear why TrPrado ordered a support.

Italy may just hold in Pie, or even support Spa back to Mar to prevent a fleet build. France
guessed wrong obviously, but I wouldn't say it was incompetence.

Matticus has it right I think. Same deal with Paris and Burgundy upon reflection. France guessed wrong three times in a row.

1 is luck. 2 is coincidence. 3 is a trend.
Bad Frenchie.