Did I ever say the government is behind this attack? Nope. Did I ever say they were illegally working to kill suspects? Nope. Did I ever critique the police? Nope. You continue to twist everything I say and I'm not going to discuss anything if it's going to come out of my mouth into a spectroscope where you can split it up and rearrange it into your own chemical formula.

no, idiot, and I didn't say you did. but "The main media that I'm looking at is reporting these as lone wolf attacks, not assisted by any government, and this I simply can't believe at this point." which seems, to me, that you are assuming that a government (not the government which I never claimed) assisted this. I never said you said that they were "*illegally* working to kill suspects but you sure as hell said they were "working to kill suspects." I didn't twist one thing you said, you amusingly twisted them yourself and then attributed them to me. Great argument strategy. You never cease to impress me.

"I'm saying that they have not gone through due process and are working simply to kill suspects."

Where is your source Bo_sox

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html

Did I see someone on here call a Chechnyan a Russian? Boy, somebody needs to learn a biut more about global politics. The Chechnyans hate the Russians and vice versa. I'm a moron when it comes to world politics and even *I* knew that.

No, bo, he meant where is your source that they are "simply working to kill the suspects". You are making wild and unfounded accusations unless you get a verifiable quote from a Police Commisioner or Sheriff or Mayor or Governor or some other person in real power to that effect.

+1 Draug

+1 Draug'

Because this statement turned into him being killed in a shootout, and the root cause of that shootout is undeterminable.

"We believe this to be a terrorist. We believe this to be a man who's come here to kill people. We need to get him in custody." - Ed Davis

One is now dead and the reports of how that came to be are too conflicting to say more.

"We need to get him in custody"

You just countered your own argument. Custody ain't dead, dude.

Root cause of shootout indeterminable= working to kill

So getting in custody= working to kill

here is our source Nazi

IF a man draws on a cop, the cop kills him. That doesn't mean the cop was hunting him with the express purpose of killing him. I've known way to many cops in my time and they would all tell you the last thing they want to do is be forced to kill someone, despite what the liberal media would have you think. They live with every life they ever take for the rest of their lives. The always question whether they could have done something different to change the outcome so everyone lived. At least the good ones do.

@draug - correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chechnya a part of Russia? That makes them Russians.

Draug, you and everyone else apparently are completely missing my point. This suspect is dead - why didn't they keep him alive? How are we to know anything about this if they are both dead? Them trying to kill the guy is hurting everyone. They are never going to come out and say that they did it, but you know what, if they wanted to explore their options and solve this in the best way possible, he'd be alive. They are rushing the whole thing to appease the public instead of trying to get him to stand down.

Chechnya is surrounded on all sides by Russia but it isn't Russia.

For those interested, on reddit, someone is transcribing the police scanner.

Link, Yonni?

Chechnya is part of Russian federation. That being said, Chechens probably wouldn't appreciate being called Russians.

They aren't trying to kill him. Again with your fucking aspersions of the police force. IT is a manhunt, not a manslaughter. Jesus fucking Christ you are fucking dense.

An autopsy and investigation will be conducted ont he first death. Witness statements have to be gathered and reconciled to determine just what happened, but it will take a little time. Hell, the details at Sandy Creek took time and are still in question. But the facts are simply they are trying to find and arrest a suspect, not kill him. If he draws or threatens to blow a bomb that puts the lives of the officers or others at risk, they should kill him. But if he surrenders, he will not just be killed. If he is cornered and gives up, he will be arrested.

And no, they aren't rushing to appease the public. The guy already is responsible for two bombs that wounded hundreds and killed three at a very public sporting event. It is believed he has another and is trying to get maximum carnage out of it. What the fuck should they do? "Oh, we're sorry Mr. Bomber. Please, go about your business and come in when it is convenient. We trust you won't set off another bomb." Are you fucking stupid?

"Them trying to kill the guy is hurting everyone"

Again where is your source that they are trying to kill him? every source Ive read says there was a shootout with explosives involved. Where is your source that they are rushing things instead of getting him to stand down? Where is your source that police initiated the firefight which the fact there was a seriously an injured police officer suggests was hardly one sided.

"If they explored their options... bullshit bullshit bullshit"

yeah, let him go and cool down, why not hes only allegedly planted explosives across the city and killed a cop. Oh hes shooting and throwing explosives at us, chill out man, he just needs to vent!


And again Reuters WHERE IS YOUR SOURCE!

Bo Sox. www.reddit.com. Look for it. Don't have link on phone.

No, Jimgov, Chechnya is not part of Russia.

http://www.infoplease.com/images/mchechnya.gif

Note how it borders Georgia to the south and Russia to the north, east, and west. Not everything that was once Soviet is now Russian.

it is a pat of russia...

come on guys

@Draug - Sorry. You are incorrect. It is a part of Russia.

It has independent status, jim. Is it still part of the Federation? If so, how is that possible diplomatically?

Personally, I am concerned that we are seeing a drastic militarization of the police force, which is very scary. What are police doing in armored vehicles and camouflage fatigues with plate carriers, automatic rifles, combat helmets, and combat boots? I'm not saying the boys in blue should run around with revolvers. A couple of shotguns or Mini-14s in the trunk combined with a simple soft bulletproof vest is capable of handling any law enforcement situation that doesn't require the National Guard.
__________

Also, it's interesting that the bombers were/are Chechen. I thought Chechens hated the Russians.

No, it is a part of the Russian Federation, not part of Russia, the country. And Chechnyans don't like being called Russians..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

If Russian troops "entered Chechnya" then that would indicate they weren't Russian, wouldn't it? Otherwise Russian tropps would have entered Russia.

@Gunfighter - I blame organized crime, whack job public shooters, and terrorism for the fact that we have to utilize S.W.A.T teams with full body armor and automatic weapons and grenade launchers. The days of riot gear and a semi auto handguin plus a shotgun being sufficient are long gone. But they don't exactly wear this shit all the time as it takes pecial circumstances for them to get the full auto weapons out. Many laws are in place to prevent just the kind of abuse you fear. It damn near takes an act of the local government for police to break that shit out.

"Draug, you and everyone else apparently are completely missing my point. This suspect is dead - why didn't they keep him alive? "

What are they supposed to do? Keep throwing officers at him to die until he runs out of bombs and bullets so they can wrestle him into handcuffs?


"Personally, I am concerned that we are seeing a drastic militarization of the police force, which is very scary. What are police doing in armored vehicles and camouflage fatigues with plate carriers, automatic rifles, combat helmets, and combat boots? "

They are chasing after people who have shown they are more then capable of making deadly explosives. I have no problem with the people who are risking their lives to find these bomb makers taking extra precautions to make sure they come back home to their families.