the germans had more tanks than the russians at the start of the war and im not saying russia had a good production rate im saying they underestamated by the nazis they thought that if they move fast they could beat them they had to much land to move through and the nazis couldnt keep suply routes to there soliders

Russia's production capabilities were in ruins at the start of WWII, why do you think Stalin didn't attack anywhere post Poland? He was getting his shit up and running, by the time Germany attacked Russia it had been... 2 years into the war?

The Soviet equipment wasn't worth shit. Yes, they had the numbers at Kursk, but they lost a greater percentage of their force because the equipment of the Germans was far superior. The Soviets lost nearly 40% of their tanks. The Germans just 10%. The Soviets lost nearly 60% of their aircraft. the Germans just 30%.

It came down to men and intelligence. The Soviets had intelligence of the attack before hand and new Hitler would try to flank Kursk, so they put everything they had and built line after line. Had they not had the men to throw at it and had they not had the intelligence (and time as Germany mistakenly waited for additional Panzers and Tigers rather than using the element of surprise), the battle may well have gone differently.

and it was winter, it's always winter in the soviet. except for when it's summer though

thanks to all you asshats i have wasted a good amount of my night to which i should have been studying for the immense amount of midterms i have next week. I bid you all good night, and good luck (didnt bear . . . used to say that) Ice we'll play a game soon

*knew Hitler would, not new Hitler would. Sorry.

To clear up the confusion, yes, I am rlumley. I wanted a new account for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, rlumley is formed using my real name, and rlumley is the log on to a number of other things (although they aren't that important, or if they are, they have different passwords). Secondly, I left the site for a long time in between my two accounts. Third, I instances where I took over CD's as a favor, which I felt were unfair to keep in my statistics.

Russian winter is always most devastating when a nation attacks it, the SU had too many troops for the Germans to be able to out maneuver them.

Wait a minute, how the fuck did this happen? "im not saying russia had a good production rate"
"your sutch an idiot russia was able to make more plaes and wepons to replace to one lost and the axis was at there limits and the battle of bursk was another example "

the fuck?

if you know any thing about american involve ment we caused the germans fall and america GAVE THEM SUPLIES to build an army if not for america germany would have betean and USSR was UNDER ESTAMATED they thought they had less stuff than they actualy did

Yep, I knew he had, akilies. I just never knew why he wanted a new account.

1) the Nazi's would have fallen(eventually) even without the U.S. support
2) your last post implies america gave germany supplies

and now i'm leaving


@ smiley- good to have you back though :)

Iceray here is a quote from Paul Kennedy:

"... by 1932, indeed the USSR was producing over 3,000 tanks and over 2,500 aircraft--fantastically more than any other country in the world".

By the time war broke out, much of this was redundant technology, and Russia and a lot of restructuring to do.

Draugnar is the "new Hitler"? Sheesh, I've missed a lot, must be those long phase games ...

Is it too much to ask that you write in coherent English?

America actually fucked everything up. Without the US neither side would have been able to start WWII as quickly as they did and it's my opinion that if we hadn't stuck our noses in the end of WWI there never would have been a WWII.

i miss spelled it it is kursk and im nameing one of many factors of witch they one the largest is the americans yes the winter contributed but when it was spring it was far to muddy and i looked it up the planes production rate(when america entered) was 15% faster than they lost

We all know about lend/lease and the US involvement in WWII both before and after Pearl Harbor. But WWII was a *team* win. No one nation was dispensible as all contributed and without any one, things would have gone terribly different.

@largeham - his and another 5th graders grammar, spelling, and punctuation is what started all this.

@ akilies:

It's good to be back. But I do pine for the old days at times. The forum was a lot more tightly knit back then. It's denigration is one of the primary reasons I left for awhile.

exactly draug this idiot ice is saying russia could have won with out us thats why EVERY country was crying for help expesicaly the ussr

Largeham, read the rest of the thread, Draugnar and I got yelled at for asking for that.

America did sell arms to the Germans in WWII, we were double dealing. Germany would have failed to take Russia like Napoleon before them, and Russia had lots of reconstruction to do. Stalin forced the reconstruction (good for him, bad for the people... sort of) and allowed Russia to be a powerhouse.

I doubt the USSR could have survived without American aid. The USSR by 1943 was producing a lot more than Germany, but less than the US at its highest and without thier support they probably would have collapsed due to the lack of machinery, most captured during the encirclement campaigns.

spyman, re the level of Soviet technology, it varies between historians. John Keegan says that the Soviet army was quite well armed while Laurence Rees would say otherwise.

yea why are we talking about this i gust wonna make my piont dont pick on little kids

Russia has NEVER completely fallen, in the history of the world it's ALWAYS been able to hold its own. The closest anyone ever came was the Mongolians and even they fell short. There is no doubt in my mind Germany would have eventually lost the war (think about the middle east) Do you honestly think that they could have dominated the world?

Yes, we did sell to the Germans very early at the start and before the war broke out. We have sold to Iraq, Iran, rebels, dictators, and more. We are indiscriminate in our selling then pay the price later.

Interpreter please? "yea why are we talking about this i gust wonna make my piont dont pick on little kids"

thats a matter of opion and the mongls did conquer russia(southern) there from a desert and it was to cold if the kahn didnt die they would have conqeured all of europe

We actually trained and supplied the people we're currently fighting. America, FUCK YEA!

I love that movie.

interpratation STOP PICKING ON SPARTANS