@ Putin33 (and to a lesser extent, Mafialligator)

You can't say I don't contribute. I pay taxes and I have a job. If we're talking about not contributing, let's discuss all off the liberals who sit at home, smoke weed, collect unemployment, and don't bother looking for a job. And if "backwards" means opposition to liberal idols like gay marriage, abortion, gun control, amnesty, constitutional protection for terrorists, massive government, cradle-to-grave welfare, and no military spending, then I am indeed "backwards", and proudly so.

You say conservatives brag about how patriotic they are when they don't know the Constitution. We clearly have a better understanding of both history and the Constitution than liberals do. Liberals obviously haven't heard of the Second Amendment, Tenth Amendment, or the interstate commerce clause. We also have a superior understanding of American traditions and values like right-to-life and responsible government. You can't accuse the right of not knowing history when liberals don't remember the 1960's (probably because they were high). Liberals don't remember how big of a failure President Johnson's Great Society programs were, and how our military simply can't win a war without strong backing on the homefront.

I can't defend Mr. O'Reilly or Representative Bachmann, and I won't bother to try. I'm defending myself and conservatism. Also, global warming is not caused by humans. (Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity by John Stossel)

"Murderous vigilantes"? A couple of Minutemen getting pissed off and killing some Mexicans is nothing compared to all of the American lives that have been claimed by our porous border and underfunded Border Patrol. Those "murderous vigilantes" are heroes. They're ordinary Americans defending their property and country against a Mexican invasion. Sure, they may have their bad seeds, but trust me, the Mexican drug cartels are much scarier than a bunch of angry ranchers. "South African-esque documentation laws"? What are you talking about? It just shows how stupid the left is if they're comparing apartheid to our relatively loose immigration laws. The 14th Amendment is such a misused, outdated amendment that it needs to be taken off the books. (Don't try to say the 2nd Amendment is misused and outdated. I won't preemptively argue about it, but just a warning). The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is irrelevant. It's our land now, and we're not going to give it back. Should we give up all the land we took from the Native Americans? I'm partial to America as is.

If I missed anything, please let me know.

The left's for expansion of government and the right is not? Funny how government bureaucracy has consistently expanded no matter who is in power, and actually expanded the most during the Reagan era when small government first became a balliwick of the right.

Lost my shit at 'Great Society'.

You know why they failed.

BECAUSE OF THE VIETNAM WAR.

lololololololololololol

"If we're talking about not contributing, let's discuss all off the liberals who sit at home, smoke weed, collect unemployment, and don't bother looking for a job." - wow, broad stereotypes much TMW? That's probably one of the greatest straw men I've ever heard of.

"And if "backwards" means opposition to liberal idols like gay marriage, abortion, gun control, amnesty, constitutional protection for terrorists, massive government, cradle-to-grave welfare, and no military spending, then I am indeed "backwards", and proudly so. " - Well I'm glad at least someone is enjoying your intolerance, and your inability to imagine any way of life that differs from your own views, because I'm certainly not. I think essentially all the problems I have with your argument is that you seem to think you have the right to make decisions for other people. You seem to think it's alright to tell gays they can't marry, that you can tell women what to do with their bodies, etc. Or in other cases you just seem to accept that America is always right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. This is what I mean by your inability to think critically. And your statement about the 14th amendment? Unless I'm mistaken the 14th amendment states "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws". How is that outdated or misused. That seems like a fairly fundamental cornerstone of any democratic society to me. And who appointed you to pick and choose which amendments can be done away with, and which ones you can just randomly declare to be immune to scrutiny? "The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is irrelevant. It's our land now, and we're not going to give it back." Do you know how callous and absurd that argument is. "Let's just ignore this treaty, there's nothing they can do about it anyway. And honouring this agreement would be inconvenient for us, so fuck it." It's pretty clear you just decide what conclusions you want, and just make up any argument you can think of to arrive at that conclusion.

Hilariously, the person I know who fits that definition of liberal the best...sits at home, smokes weed, collects unemployment, and doesn't bother looking for a job...identifies as conservative. She lives off the state because she figures that while she's opposed to it, she might as well use it while it's there. I doubt she's alone.

Big shock. TMW doesn't understand Constitutional jurisprudence. I've beaten his ignorant ass countless times before on this, so I'm not going to waste my breath.

Your ignorance is appalling, but somehow not shocking. The attempt by the right to re-write history to suit their own short-sighted goals is both disgusting in its obviousness, and repulsive in its falsehood.

The 2nd Amendment is the one amendment that conservatives seem to 'remember', but don't understand. The fact that no court until DC v. Heller ever upheld their mythical idea that the Constitution protects a "personal right" to non-military use of firearms is completely ignored. The history of the Amendment is also ignored, as are the inconvenient words "militia" and "bear arms" (clearly implying military use).

The fact that you openly support murderers while in the same breathe claiming that the right supports the "right to life" is unbelievable. The right seems only care about 'life' before birth. After birth everybody can apparently go to hell.

"Also, global warming is not caused by humans. (Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity by John Stossel)"

Ah right, John Stossel - the same guy who wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act. Obviously he's an expert on climate science, right?

http://www.fair.org/activism/stossel-tampering.html

" interstate commerce clause"

I'm flummoxed. You're really claiming liberals don't know about the interstate commerce clause? You do realize that this is almost always invoked by those on the left to argue that yes, the Constitution does indeed allow for the government to regulate the economy? Usually the right is bitching about this clause, not mentioning it in the same breath as the hallowed 2nd and 10th amendments. Weird.

"Big shock. TMW doesn't understand Constitutional jurisprudence." Or perhaps he does and thinks it should just be ignored in favour of whatever would make the country "badass". *eyeroll*

Vengence! i finally got to play a game with peyton1 (the person who caused me to get a resign) and killed him and it felt wonderful....kind of....he created a new profile because i gave his old one a bad name when i started this thread but it seems like he still is sticking to his cowardice ways even on his new profile. once he saw that i was going to kill him he left the game so the joy of killing him was shortlived.

Bounce

Okay, sorry about my absence. I really do want to continue this discussion, so if you want to continue, could you restate all of the major points you want me to answer?

(I'm not going to take the time to read over everything again, in which case I would probably miss a couple things anyway. After all, it's just an Internet debate)

I never thought I'd say this. But it's good to read TMW's posts. At least they can be read...

Ten posts, very few of which are very long, are too much for you?

I'm not impressed.

@ Jack_Klein

To respond to each individual point in each post? Yes, that's too much for my very busy non-Diplomacy schedule.

@ Draugnar

Thank you. I take pride in my grammar, unlike some people on this site.