Here's food for thought:

Jesus was entirely counter-culture for his day. In an age and society where the religious elite would do as they please, Jesus cam and shook the fiber of everyone's thought. Deity aside, let's look at this as a two-fold possibility: we can look at the impact of his death, or assume what could have happened had he not been killed.

Things he *did* while alive was to stand in the way on behalf of women, such as the woman caught in adultery, where he turned away a death sentence simply by writing in the ground and making the statement "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
He took up for the poor, like in the feeding of the 5000 (even if you don't believe in the miracle, you cannot deny it was his call to see to the needs of the people),
He helped the outcasts of society including lepers and those that were ostracized.
He sowed notions of peace and not revenge, fought for fairness and self-sacrifice in an age when it wasn't popular.

By the time of his death, he had people coming from all of Israel and further just to hope he would help or even to hear him speak. As he came into Jerusalem, the people were ready to crown him king, so much so that the leaders feared a revolt.

Keep in mind that he didn't lose most of them until after his death when they thought he would have an earthly kingdom. That said:

Even on his death, he brought peace to a thief being crucified. After his death, many carried his message to countless others across countless generations. Whether you call his sayings original or not, the ones who said it prior got little to no recognition. It was the life and death of Christ that gave those words life. It wasn't just 12 people that followed him after his death, but the impact of everyone that wanted him king in his life was changed. People that should have been dead, but gained life also passed his message along. Remember, by Acts 1 and 2, there was a group of about 120 men (not including women) that followed him and passed along his commands to form the largest following of today. Christ was a philosopher in action, laying down his life for what he believed.


Now, had he not been crucified, he may very well have sparked the biggest revolt in Roman history, and become the king of Israel going down in history with names like David and Solomon. Having even longer to impact more people instead of dying in his mid-thirties.

No Octavious, those are quotes from Jesus in the book of Matthew. And Jesus is the answer. I do not have a vote in this contest, have no idea how the whole thing works, but I do know that Jesus is not worried about winning a contest at WebDip. He is worried about saving each and every one of us.

AFatCat, anyone can vote. Please just say your vote without an exclamation, apparently.

AFatCat: you are under no pressure to vote for Jesus. You could vote for Descartes as well. Do feed you in with this great man's biggest accomplishments:

-) cogito ergo sum (I think therefore I am)
-) bringing together geometry and algebra (which basically means that his ideas in this regard made modern mathematics possible)
-) Descartes was a very good Christian in his other endeavours (amongst which was coming up with a great theodicee), which are remarkable, but wouldn't carry the price over Jesus, just in case you might fall into the trap of others above to think that Descartes votes are anti-Christian by necessity.
-) He had a very interesting life in praxi as well from being Jesuit to being a military engineer, remaining firm in his faith whilst spending his adult life in countries violently hostile to it.

It is for me more a vote of having both equal (taking Jesus as a human being – if you add all his godly weight to it, than he wouldn't be qualified anymore as this isn't the tournament of the greatest gods) in everything except science and mathematics, where Descartes clearly wins. For the simplicity and the profoundness of his ideas.

To paraphrase it: A vote for Descartes is a vote for Jesus + more.

Inventing morality trumps inventing mathematics.

He didn't invent morality!

Neither Jesus nor Descartes invented morality. If you follow some creed than morality is of divine origin or a prior and can't be invented. If you try to get to morality in terms of an evolutionary process than Jesus was the australopithecus and descartes the sapiens.

It's hyperbole. But each invented it as we know it in a certain sense

truth trumps everything. inventing mathematical things == finding truth ≥ morality.

but anyways all things considered, Descartes is equal to Jesus + math and science.

Without the value of truth (morality is value), truth is nothing. And besides, Jesus knew the value of truth. For ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

The modern sensibility of what is right and wrong in the west is based on the teaching of Jesus. Even today. If you dispute that you're a moron, sorry.

Descartes vs. "Jesus" is rather easy. One is based in reality; one is the construct of mythology.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/31/1326090/-Scholars-acknowledge-no-evidence-Jesus-existed#

that's a vote for descartes ^^^ am i right?

As long as "And Jesus is the answer." is as well

Eadan, ha, if you want to discredit Jesus, please do so seriously. That article is ridiculous.

Exhibit A: Josephus (Jewish ethnic, not practicing Judaism)
Exhibit B: Tacitus

Article: Bullshit

@Thucy I suggest that you are wrong. More so, I would argue that most of Western morality stems from post-platonic philosophy (most of Christian morality indeed is derived from these schools, refer yourself to Augustinus or Aquin for this matter).

"And they were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes." (Luke 4)

This is one of the big things people miss about Jesus. It's also one of the things people continue NOT to miss about Jesus. I'm sure you can find somebody who wrote things that were similar to one or another of Jesus' teachings, in this or that poem or treatise centuries before He taught. People didn't pay much more attention to them at the time than they do now.

Jesus is altogether different. Whether or not you think he is the Son of God, He certainly spoke as if He had God's authority, and to all "who have an ear," it comes through like a bolt from the blue. Written down by unlearned men decades after his death, the power that astonished the crowds that day in Galilee is still plain to be seen. It is the defining moral teaching of world history.

Academic types such as those on this site aren't fans. Many like to pick apart his words, criticize the records we have of him, and engage in lengthy analyses -- preferring, indeed, men like Descartes (unquestionably a great genius) who can write thousands of pages analyzing the minutest questions. But by comparison it's easy to be a Descartes. The philosophers we love, in fact, are just as "the scribes" mentioned in the passage. As the learned, we love them, but their words contain no power. Nobody really cares what Descartes thought about ethics. Meanwhile, millions or billions of people are continuing to hang on the words of Jesus, grasping to order their lives after the truths he announced, because it is clear to them, as it was clear all those years ago to everybody but the scribes and pharisees, that words with this power do not come once in a lifetime or once in a century or once in a millenium, but they come once, and they are "the words of eternal life."

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."

For those of you who will never vote for Jesus because you are "an atheist so he is a fake" or a similar mind set and for those who want the real reason that He should win hands down every time, here it is.

The is no person in history who has so shaped the world that almost 2000 years after his death, the world revolves around him. There are two main time periods that are discussed in this world. They are bc (before Christ) and AD (which is not after death, it is latin for since His birth). The world fights, celebrates, discusses and revolves around Him. Whether you believe He is the savior or that He was a fraud, no one has been more influential in this world. You can debate it if you want, but in your hearts, you know it is true.

I am an atheist, and I am putting in my vote for Jesus. Don't get me wrong, Descartes was an amazing thinker and an influential voice in the worlds of mathematics and philosophy, and I'm sure many other things that I don't want to research right now. However, from my publicly educated standpoint, Jesus is the most influential person in the last two millennium! His teachings have influenced generation after generation of good deeds, and wars. Jesus was indirectly the cause of the crusades and the Spanish inquisition, but also the cause of many of the good things in society today. Therefore, my vote must go to Jesus for being the single most influential person in the world.

http://www.bethinking.org/jesus/did-jesus-exist

Interesting article attempting to disprove the most mainstream thesis on the existence of Jesus

Descartes

Why has nobody adjudicated?

Because God wanted Descartes to win ;)

@semck I'm sure, Jesus was an impressive speaker. Descartes fans would have described his teaching style just the same way (and they did). What you cited from the bible you can read in every description of an impressive man or woman given an impressive talk. That is pretty much why I wouldn't pay too much attention it – unless, you think that just JC being god's son makes it more relevant, which in turn shouldn't as then he would not qualify for this tournament.

To your second point: Let the master reply to the contender:

"posterity will never discover anything in this subject which I could not have discovered just as well if I had bothered to look for it"

@AFC no, it isn't. And not everyone counts that way. I was born in the year 60. And live in the year 27. And time hasn't gone backwards. None of the guys my year count stems from would merit a place in this tournament, albeit both are great guys, indeed. I understand that we do discuss the man Jesus of Nazareth, who existed very well (I trust Flavius here). And that guy looses to Descartes, for reasons stated above.

Jesus: 14
Descartes: 14

Throwing a fair coin with:

head <– Jesus, tail <– Descartes

resulted in Descartes. Descartes moves on.

Remaining Historical Figures:

Leaders:
*10. Augustus
*24. Alexander the Great

Artists:
*26. William Shakespeare
*28. Johann Sebastian Bach

Scientists/Inventors:
*6. Aristotle
*13. Albert Einstein

Wild Card:
*1. Buddha
*11. Rene Descartes

New Matchup:

Leaders: August vs Al da gr8

Note: Vash needs to update the brackets:

http://challonge.com/webDipGreatestLeaderBrackett
http://challonge.com/webDipGreatestArtistBrackett
http://challonge.com/webDipGreatestScientistBrackett
http://challonge.com/webDipGreatestWildCardBrackett

and yes, god wanted Descartes to move on.

Hey, if it's tied, I think we need a tiebreaker vote...

Even though I'm sure God wanted Descartes to win (He was always a harsh Daddy...well, back in his Old Testament days, anyway.) ;)