1. I actually do watch some Christian TV, that's my go-to when there's nothing immediately on late at night and none of my current DVDs--Star Trek, Doctor Who, The West Wing, and lots, lots, LOTS of literature, especially Shakespeare, Shaw, and Dickens--or yet to be watched DVDs appeal to me...

Partly because it's fun just to see how ludicrous some of the things can get (and they can get pretty laughable)...
Partly as an exercise in dealing with theism and theological arguments (lol, I'll talk back to the TV the way someone might argue with a call in a football game, pull up whatever chapter or verse they're quoting and argue, examine their argument, see what holds up and what doesn't, which is most of it, usually...)
Partly just to examine their public speaking techniques (love them or hate them, most of these men are good public speakers, if not sometimes charlatans, and can induce thousands to clap and donate just with their words and knowing how to make eye contact the right way and use the right words with the right emphasis and so on)...
And partly just because, well, I (obviously) never went to Church, or a Temple or Synagogue, so that sort of experience is one many in this country have and I lack, and I watch and find it fascinating how people seemingly take so much joy out of this sort of thing that to me seems completely alien, at odds with everything I value, and just completely outside my own sphere of experience or being...it's almost like being on a sort of cultural safari and seeing a different part of the cultural jungle, as it were.

;)

2. Well, by the yarmulke, robes with the Star of David in blue and white on it, and all the Hebrew text, Jerusalem background, and fake menorah that made up the set, if he isn't one, it's a good bet that's what they were going for with "The Jewish Jesus" rabbi here...by the name of K.A. Schneider...and look! He has a Twitter and everything!

https://twitter.com/RabbiSchneider

xD

Wait...

How dare you question anyone's Jewishness. The man, despite his beliefs that directly contradict judaism, believes he is jewish, so who are you, you bigot, to deprive him of that.

The nerve of some people...

One doesn't become a Jew just because he decided to be one. Either he is born to Jewish mother or he was converted with full heart.

Oh dear, here we go again...

JewFC Matchup 1,056: Obi vs. SC (surprise!)

LOL

First--how am I depriving him of...anything?
Am I directly taking away ANYTHING from this man, SC?
His money? His show? His faux menorah on his set? His yarmulke? His birthright?
WHAT am I "depriving" him of, exactly, hm?

CRITICIZING...yes.
I am CRITICIZING him for, well, you say it yourself, contradicting Judaism while claiming to be a rabbi.
That is NOT depriving him of...anything...or are we not allowed to criticize anyone anymore?

"But how hypocritical, Obi!" you may shout, historian blood boiling, "YOU, OF *ALL* JEWS...you ATHEIST JEW...you're going to criticize HIM for contradicting Judaism???"

Yes.
Why is this fair?
*I* don't claim to be a rabbi, SC--ever, in any capacity, whatsoever, you know it, I know it.
A rabbi is a very specific thing, and the man is falsely advertising or else falsely representing the profession and the theology associated with it...

And you can't really say he isn't when he's quoting from ROMANS and MATTHEW and claiming that we all must lead a better CHRISTIAN life...

You can't say that, I'm afraid, AND keep your rabbi stripes.

That's a bit like being a Catholic priest and yet claiming we all must submit for Mohammad, NOT Jesus, is the final prophet to whom we should all pay allegiance to.

(And if there is by chance some Catholic priest or any Christian priest, pastor, minister, etc., saying just that, I'd say the same thing and levy the same charge of fraudulence and do so on the same grounds.)



Am I saying the man isn't a JEW?
No--frankly, I don't know if he is or not...he seems to say he is, "Schneider" would fit for a "Jewish" name (a bit off-color, yes, but if the guy was styling himself Rabbi Billy Bob Dupree the Third, you, too, would probably be just a mite suspicious of his background...and yes, he could have converted, our theoretical Billy Bob, hence why I say suspicious and not outright rule his Jewishness out.) so maybe he is a real Jew.
That I don't deny, nor do I intend to, nor do I intend to deprive him of that.

I DO challenge his authority as a self-styled rabbi of the Jewish FAITH when he quoted from the NT and tells us all to be good CHRISTIANS and wait for JESUS to come back.

I don't deprive him of the right to be a sham.
I don't deprive him of the right to garner money via his huxter tricks.
I don't deprive him the right to blather on fraudulently.
I don't deprive him of the right to his freedom of speech, or to claim whatever he wishes.

I DO reserve my right to CRITICIZE him, SC.

Learn to recognize the difference, especially as--it would seem--you agree with me that he's contradicting the faith, one you actually do still hold, so if anything, I'd think you'd be more irritated at such an apparent fraud as this non-Judaic "rabbi" teaching what your faith does NOT teach...

And, indeed, telling Jews to break THE great distinguishing factor of their faith from Christianity in the eyes of many gentiles historically and believe in Jesus...as if 2,000 years of Jews NOT believing he was the messiah and DYING due to persecution brought about by this conviction of theirs that he was NOT the messiah to come.

Sorry--he may be a Jew, but if he is, while I'd not for a second question him on the ethno-cultural aspect of that background, I WOULD question him and indeed chastise him greatly for misrepresenting that faith, its history, its teachings, and in doing so I CRITICIZE the man and his un-rabbinical claims, SC, but I do not "deprive" him of anything.

I am Jewish, and depending on the sect you choose to identify with, you can certainly tamper with the beliefs written out to you. However, you aren't Jewish if Jesus if you savior, master, and father all at the same time, and you aren't Jewish if you choose to portray yourself as a Jew following Jesus. Why not, you might ask? Simple. That's called Christianity. Came from Judaism.

Jewish heritage, Christian faith... But then there is an entire sect of Judaism (Messianic Judaism - http://www.jewsforjesus.org/messianic-judaism) that follows Christ while following the traditions of the Jewish faith.

Messianic Jews are no different then christian jews. They definatly don't practice judaism in the traditional halacha and thus placed in the same basket as traditionals, semi-secular, reformic and any other new-age definition

So? They are still Jews by birth and follows the basic tenants and practices of the Jewish faith. If you are going to get that picky, then the only true Jews are Othodox and the only true Christians are Catholics. Sorry, but that is bullshit. Judging anothers belief and faith in God because it differes from your hard andfast definition of "the only way to God" is what gives all religion a bad name. The Wesboro Baptist fuckheads do it. The Muslim extremists do it. And now you are doing it. I hope you like the company you keep.

Draugnar, as a Jewish person, having experienced Reform (my sect), Conservative (the sect of many nearby me), and briefly Orthodox (in Burroughs, NY, for two weeks, more than I care to do again), I recognize three sects - Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox. There is no "Jews for Jesus" sect. That is a tearoff of Judaism. I don't mean that as offensive. I only mean it as what is agreed upon by the common Jewish community.

I wasn't specifically referring to you, bo. Aureliano pluncked Messianic and Reformed in together as if only Orthodox was the real Judaism. My in laws are Conservative, kind of between Refomred and Orthodox if I understand it correctly.

Y'all should just shut up and put some money in the donation tray, because we all know that above all else, religion is a business.

And Hitler is a mercenary.

Why should an atheist Jew lecture anybody about the Jewish faith? Surely embracing Jesus is less of a radical departure from the Jewish faith (not culture) than denying God exists at all? I guess obiwanobiwan just needed something to be outraged by today, and with Romney gone and no Anonymous sequel on the horizon he had to settle with this.

Does it blend?

"Wait...

How dare you question anyone's Jewishness. The man, despite his beliefs that directly contradict judaism, believes he is jewish, so who are you, you bigot, to deprive him of that.

The nerve of some people.." Says Santa.

Do you know believe that Jews that are against circumcisism are Jews now Santa?

Hey Guys, Jesus was a rabbi, and people try to deny that he was Jewish! Read this:

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]”

4 “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.[g] 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”[h]

John the Baptist’s Testimony About Jesus

22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.) 25 An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew[i] over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

27 To this John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ[j] but am sent ahead of him.’ 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.

31 “The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33 The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[k] gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”[l]

Footnotes:
a. John 3:3 Or born from above; also in verse 7
b. John 3:6 Or but spirit
c. John 3:7 The Greek is plural.
d. John 3:13 Some manuscripts Man, who is in heaven
e. John 3:15 Or believes may have eternal life in him
f. John 3:16 Or his only begotten Son
g. John 3:18 Or God’s only begotten Son
h. John 3:21 Some interpreters end the quotation after verse 15.
i. John 3:25 Some manuscripts and certain Jews
j. John 3:28 Or Messiah
k. John 3:34 Greek he
l. John 3:36 Some interpreters end the quotation after verse 30.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%203&version=NIV1984
John 3
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

Jesu was a rabbi until someone gave him tea, then he became a rabbit .... what's up doc?

Jesus was the creator of the Christian faith, of which he himself separated from Judaism. That's why the Romans crucified him… he refused to be associated with what he didn't believe in. That's not a bad thing, but in his case, it cost him his life. He was Jewish until he chose not to follow the faith presented to him, hence why we call it Christianity and not "Judaism as Jesus said." Judaism, and I assume other faiths, aren't a loose thing.. they are either followed or they are not. Following Jesus is not a principle of Judaism.

Agreed, bo. But nothing in Judaism says you can't follow him either. The only split from Judaism I could think of would be a Jew thinking Jesus was more than a prophet (i.e. the Son of God) as that would put Jesus equal with Jehovah and violate the 1st Commandment. But nothing I am aware of in Jesus' teachings violates any Hebrew Law.

There are occasions where he chastises the pompous Jews for doing things outwardly for appearances but not keeping their actions in their heart, but he never says "don't do this". He says "do this in your heart, do this to honor God, don't do it to appear more pious and faithful than those you lead."

The above was not meant to imply all JEws are or were pompous. It was intended to point out specific Jews who had pompous attitudes. Please don't misread that.

Of course nothing in Judaism says you can't follow him. Judaism came prior to Jesus. Simple math there.

I think it would depend on the depiction of Jesus as to whether they are by Jewish law to be considered Jewish for exactly what you said, the first Commandment. If they called him "savior" for example, I'd have no issue (till later), because the word for savior in Hebrew is מושיע. It has the same root as the name for Moses (משה), who is also a person, thus one could assume that a savior is not God-like in a sense that would break that commandment. At the same time, the same argument could be made that "savior" is a word used for God in a common Jewish prayer, and I personally would go along with that argument in saying that Moses was acting as a Prophet of God (איש אלהים - same principle pronunciation of Moses, and though I personally don't believe that's relevant, my grandfather argues that it is). He is not represented as a "Son of God" per se. There's a difference there, and though it can be hard to find, it really defines the whole issue at hand.

My point is that you can feel free to craft your own argument, but ultimately, there's not much room for error in Judaism. The reason that the Reform sect is slowly decreasing in number is because it is so loose that there's no inclination to celebrate religion at all - the same moral dilemma I've been in for awhile. While one might argue that that implies Judaism is a loose religion, I would disagree, based entirely on the fact that Reform Judaism was born in the 1900s. There's no Biblical text implying its existence prior to its first establishment, and that's why I believe that Reform Judaism is essentially "loose" Judaism.

"A rabbi is a very specific thing"

A Rabbi is NOT a specific thing. Rabbi means teacher. Anyone can be a Rabbi. In America and elsewhere now there are ordinations but you do not be to be ordained to be a rabbi. Lack of knowledge comes through again.

"And you can't really say he isn't when he's quoting from ROMANS and MATTHEW and claiming that we all must lead a better CHRISTIAN life..."

Yet you can be a Jew quoting athiest thinkers and saying you live an athiest life. Nice...

"That's a bit like being a Catholic priest and yet claiming we all must submit for Mohammad, NOT Jesus, is the final prophet to whom we should all pay allegiance to."

Catholic Priests are completely different from Rabbis. The process to become a priest is totally different as are the requirements of a priest.

"Learn to recognize the difference, especially as--it would seem--you agree with me that he's contradicting the faith, one you actually do still hold, so if anything, I'd think you'd be more irritated at such an apparent fraud as this non-Judaic "rabbi" teaching what your faith does NOT teach..."

I am more irritated that when I do this to Mr. Seinfeld Jew up their he throws a whine fest, yet he can question ANYONEs Jewish credentials.

"Do you know believe that Jews that are against circumcisism are Jews now Santa? "

I am being facetious. Obi has chastised me to no end when I "criticize" his Judaism, yet he feels fine criticizing others. Hypocrisy combined with lack of knowledge. It obviously exposes Obi's connection to his faith, ie. being Jewish just means he is not christian, and of course can make Jewish jokes and speak for people he has no real connection to.

This Rabbi is just a Jewish as Obi (from birthright) and just as anti-jewish as obi but from a different angle. I'm fine in principle for putting Jews for Jesus on blast, they are a real cult. But the fact that Obi is doing it, after all his ranting and raving, is quite rich.

And I never said Jews who criticized circumcision are not Jews. I said by definition people who are uncircumcised are not Jews. I also said the tiny minority of Jews who speak out against circumcision do not constitute an accepted opinion about Circumcision in Judaism. 2% Do not speak for the 98% nor should the opinions of the 2% be considered equal to those of the 98%

"Of course nothing in Judaism says you can't follow him. Judaism came prior to Jesus. Simple math there."

Actually there is this thing called the Talmud, and that says rather specifically that you can not follow him

I just find it an endless source of entertainment that a Jew who prides himself on his ignorance of Judaism, and feigns offense if anyone questions him, can come on and criticize the Jewish credentials of others, no matter how ridiculous that faith is

a Jew is born.is not a religion.(judaism is religion but you don't have to practice it to be a jew)
there are jews who believe in jesus (yehova witnesses ).

@Santa - Where in the Talmud does it say you can't follpw Jesus' teachings? I get that you can't worship Him as that wouldviolate the 1st Commandment by putting Him before Jehovah in the orthodox view. Bit again I say nothing in hos teachings violates Hebrew Law.

My knowledge of Judaism is limited to two girlfriends and a blow-off religious studies class my senior year of college, but even I know that there's plenty in Judaism which would preclude Jews from following Jesus. Trinitarianism, a bedrock tenet of virtually all Christianity, is anathema to the Jewish understanding of God, for instance. You people are just as bad as obiwanobiwan in pretending to understand these things.

@Invictus - I already conceded following Him as God would be in direct contradiction tot eh 1st Commandment. I'm talking about following him as a prophet and a teacher. Not saying "He is the Son of God" but "He was a man of God".