mmm it's very difficult because of the central, practically landlocked position. However, the point of diplomacy is to make diplomatic alliances and so if you are worried then ensure you have allies so you can work your way out.

what if its a anonymous, no message gunboat. there isnt a whole lot of moves I can make to convince them of my loyalty.

I am highly doubting that austria can win in a no message gunboat. how often does it happen?

"what if its a anonymous, no message gunboat. there isnt a whole lot of moves I can make to convince them of my loyalty."

Oh, well in that case I really don't care because you're not playing Diplomacy.

ahaha. nicely said.

As Austria in gunboats, I tend to go for a gambit. That is, I move my fleet to Albania. Assuming that if Italy attacks, you're dead either way, the potential rewards outweigh the risk. If Italy doesn't attack, it signals trust and is a good basis for an alliance. You are virtually guaranteed Greece. It also helps that Russia tends to do so poorly in gunboats. If he doesn't get into Gal, he quickly grinds into a halt and starts shrinking.

According to my stats, Austria wins 5.81% of all gunboat games, compared to 7.28% for Russia. Austria is defeated in 56.09% of gunboats. I've had a lot of fun with Austria in gunboats. It can be disastrous but you can also be creative and have a fun and rewarding game. I prefer Austria over Russia, Italy or England.

in real Diplomacy I find an alliance with Italy to be absolutely crucial for Austria

In regular Diplomacy, I find the Russo-Austrian alliance extremely underrated. It doesn't invoke the same panic that the Jug does, at the same time, it sidesteps the Black Sea issue somewhat and there is more flexibility. It promises quicker gains for both parties compared to the Lepanto that is usually very slow and irritating for Italy, who might look to stab with lofty promises from Turkey. It's hard to set one up in gunboats though and almost all Russians I've seen have opened to Gal.

Austria is such a nice country to play with. In fact, one of my favourite along with Germany. It is a hard country to play with, but it is really rewarding when you get successful with it.

As Abgemacht points out, it is the country you have to use your best diplomacy throug the first years. As Austria, you should be directly in contact with the 6 other countries (well, I always do that, no matter what country I'm playing with, but I throw in more Diplomacy when Austria).

I have a thought about Austria that if you can't make it to 5 SCs through the first year, you're generally out in some more years. So, of course ITaly si your best friedn as a Ven-Tri move right off the bat is deadly being Austria.

I'd say the best strategy as Austria is to be *really* flexible with your neighbours so you can have them on your side. Don't be afraid agreeing to DMZs or sharing information with those you feel comfortable with the most. If you can get Turkey and Russia to lose faith in one another, you have done your job well.

I really like Austria, actually

abgemacht: is that how you see Gunboat?

Austria can win in gunboat...
Here is my win
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=19910

There a lot more in this site.

Austria's early weakness is also a strength. Because everybody knows that Austria wants to start friendly, and often can't afford to anger anybody or commit to attacking anybody from the start, all of Austria's neighbors will believe the Austrian diplomat when he says, "I'd most want to ally with YOU." Austria is also allowed a bit more leeway should he adopt a "wait and see" attitude when asked for an early commitment, for the exact same reason.

The Austrian player is the player who's words his neighbors feel they can trust more than any other player on the board, before he even speaks (OK maybe Italy trusts France as much). Take advantage of that and negotiate yourself into a position where no matter what happens you come out ahead!

just for the sake of information. please tell me how to never have this happen again? \
gameID=87753
I feel like I basically had no chance no matter what I did.

Austria is one of the most vulnerable players in the first 2 or 3 years, but if you can make it past that and even make it to 6 centers, Austria is one of the most powerful countries there is. There are weak early, but if you make it past the opening years, Austria excels in mid and late game.

Turkey tried to sneak into serbia hoping I was vacating Serbia. this resulted in Italy robbing me of venice and it was over at that point. Russia lefft the game and everyone voted draw other than turkey. they played it out til I was dead then sopped up my bet of 101 with each other. Everyones happy...

braimbomb Abgemach already told you better than anybody else could.

Austria needs to just get lucky in gunboat and hope Italy doesn't come for him. That's reason #412 why gunboat isn't real diplomacy.

Even when I clearly was just trying to attack turkey Italy continued to attack me relentlessly without any sympathy. there was no diplomacy I could do at that point...join the guy who doesnt want the draw, who helped me lose my lands, or fight the guy who doesnt want the draw and lose the rest of my lands..

yea thats true Yellow. I wont pout anymore about it but I worked hard to get those 101 , and now their gone because people have no kindness.

Gunboat is not diplomacy, brainbomb. That's actually why I hate gunboat games...

Are people who do so well in gunboats any good at real diplomacy?

Sorry about that brainbomb, I had draw clicked because Russia wasn't there. In my experience Austria can't win if Italy attacks. As Italy, I do best when attacking Austria, so that is almost always my opening move.

There are very few exceptions to Austria losing in gunboat when Italy is against Austria, and here is one. Probably the gunboat I am most proud of, where I was Austria and Italy attacked me to start, Russia and Turkey were aligned, yet I still managed to survive and eventually win.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=81710#gamePanel

I don't think gunboat helps that much with Diplomacy.

Yes, tactics are important in Diplomacy, but you don't need to play a gunboat everyday to master tactics.

The only Classic game I've won was as Russia in an alliance with Austria. The only time I've played as Austria I got spanked so hard I still can't sit down.

Oh no, not another one of these gunboat discussions.

Hi, my name is gunboat=/=diplomacy. I am currently making a daily thread about the Congo, but my true hobby is to post threads that are self-referencing and for live games, go live live games go. My parents, TC and HC, do not approve of who I am because I try to change the world for the better and because I am liberal and educated (hence my 4.5 GPA and my symphony), but they love it when I drink unpretentious wine especially after I DDoS a new player on the site, who's bullshoi is he new. My friends and I like to get together on Fridays and have an org... organizational meet to play pacifist gunboat and to discuss the new pictures that PE has posted of us... taking shots while making threads about other threads including this one. Inevitably, one of us always gets so drunk that he would NMR or CD and post a cheating accusation about how gunboat is not real diplomacy.
If you have not realized it yet, I have been taking shots continuously due to my peak ghost-rating, and so if this does not make sense, feel free to create a google circle and throw epithets around.

LOL zultar do you just keep this in a txt file and update it when appropriate?

I'm actually pulling a very strong Austrian gunboat game right now. I've seen Austria win a few surprising times, too, in both full-press and gunboat games. If my game were complete, I would link you to it.

"Are people who do so well in gunboats any good at real diplomacy?"

Only solid gunboater I've played is SplitDiplomat and he's balls horrible at the real game. He's fine until he starts talking.

I think the posts talking about how Russia usually fares poorly too and the benefits of the Austro-naught are the key here.

When I play gunboat as Russia I try to work with Austria. I leave Galicia open. Often Austria moves in, which is a shame, but sometimes I leave Warsaw open in hopes that Austria sees the value in having at least one neighbor not trying to kill him.

If Russia can acquire Rumania, then he and Austria can work on Bulgaria, which can work out fairly well.

That said, the Russia's that do do well do well because they have gobbled up Rumania, Budapest and Vienna. So it's difficult to count on Russian help.

As Austria I will normally open the Balkan gambit. As others have said, if Italy does not attack, you are golden. If Italy does, I usually devote all my resources to trying to slow him down so he dies at the hands of Turkey.

BTW this is all gunboat strategy. In Diplomacy with diplomacy things can work out much better for Austria. Italy is a tough one to get on your side, but if you do, that is very nice. Russia is a little easier to sway. As in gunboat, he usually has enough other problems without fighting Austria too. And if neither of those seem possible, Turkey should always welcome an alliance with Austria as he will be in such a dominant position over you if you make it to the midgame (that's why it's third choice).

It's debatable. Gunboat games test your tactical abilities quite nicely, and they're great places to put forth some powerful, off-the-wall moves that nobody is likely to expect. Both of these are critical elements in a successful full-press game.

My statistics in full-press games aren't that much different from my stats in gunboat (21 solos, 18 draws, 33 survivals, 36 defeats - many of those defeats were deliberate points-metagaming from earlier in this site's days). I perceive myself as a very competent tactician, although I know several players on the site who are better than I am. I know that my diplomacy skills are not as good as my tactical ones, but that my diplomacy isn't necessarily a liability.

SplitDiplomat is probably an anomaly. I don't think you fall exclusively into one camp or the other. As long as you remember than gunboat is a variant on the classic game -- a drill or a scrimmage, perhaps -- then you're fine.

"Are people who do so well in gunboats any good at real diplomacy?"
There is a positive correlation. Once Alderian, Ghost and I get further along with the GR stuff, I will do a full correlation analysis on different types of games and how they each relate, but at the top of my head, there is a relatively strong positive correlation between gunboat GRs and overall GRs, meaning the people who tend to do well in gunboats also do well in full press and vice versa, but this is a general trend, not a 1 to 1 relationship as there are clearly examples like SplitDiplomat or MM -I've been trying to provoke him to play a few gb games for a while ;).
I will do the analysis once school is over for me, so look for this in early/mid June. It should be rather interesting as I will have correlations as well as specific subscores for gunboats, press games, and etc. Feel free to give me an encouragement. ;-)

"do you just keep this in a txt file and update it when appropriate?"
Kind of. I have that thread referenced in my profile. So when it's appropriate, I just go to it and change as necessary. It does amuse me whenever I read that particular piece of writing of mine.