MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

True. Half of the players would get a null or I don't know or something like that, so I don't really pretend to a have a read on them.

I do give reads when I have, either town or scum (or alien). And I think you are more likely town, but a misguided one.

Who do you have reads on?

Town: Damo (obvious), HB, Kgray, Demon, Bunny, Brain, Bona, Bob.
It's a bit of a huge towncore but I will be really surprised if there is more then 1 scum in this list and most likely none.

Scum: Celaph, Maniac, Donny, Vecna.

The rest are in a middle zone: Ghug, Ezio, Jasnah, emc, Macca. With Ghug closer to town and Ezio closer to scum.

Sk can be anyone, my hope is that it isn't in play.

That's cool

No one's claimed to have discarded it, but they shouldn't be a worry until late game anyways

[Maniac]

Poor bot.

Touch of the piles mate. I feel your pain

[jasnah]

@ HB I think he is scum and of the people I think are scum, he's further the most likely to be successfully killed

@ ghug My apologies if I've misattributed you

[damo666]

Poor bot.

Touch of the piles mate. I feel your pain

[ghug]

@ HB I think he is scum and of the people I think are scum, he's further the most likely to be successfully killed

@ ghug My apologies if I've misattributed you

If you were scum, do you think you'd take any advice from experienced players, or are you too headstrong for that?

[kgray]

For example: if you are doing something explicitly to see how other people react, you should probably not tell ppl that. You are keeping a secret from the rest of the town about your thought process (you should probably clue them in at some point).

@ghug
@bob
@kgray

It took me an embarrassing amount of time to figure out what was happening here

[jasnah]

If you were scum, do you think you'd take any advice from experienced players, or are you too headstrong for that?

In fairness people should be taking advice from me, but given the lack of understanding on this front I settle for a distanced neutrality

[kgray]

@ brain bomb @ ghug

Lol you guys are going the wrong way. Not gonna lie, to go out of the game for a second, it's kind of annoying that when I say something you find objectionable your first thought is that 'one of the guys must have given her a paragraph to copy and paste'. Obviously I've never had an opinion of my own or be able to put one into words..

I'll write more later but only engage with people who are interested in doing right things, I already wrote who I like and who I'm voting tomorrow so it's not like I have much to do over the night

I think you're great and I know this game/community is kinda a shitshow but I hope you keep playing!

[kgray]

So far, after reading Brain, Bunny, kgray, ghug, and Bona over, seems like
a) there's a bunch of role stuff that's pissing me off because some of you seem to be running some permutations ...and

b) Macca or Celaph might be D4 kills?

Macca should not be on the table based solely on the RB thing.

What are your opinions of them outside the RB thing?

I don't think they're obvtown, and I did last time we were both town, so I'm skeptical. I don't think they've given many reads at all, and that hesitancy to come up with fake reads is what I remember most from the game I played with them as scum. So scumlean. But I can't get over why they'd call out damo like they did during the night phase if they have a scumchat...

[kgray]

This is solid advice bona. Try to take it on board as much as possible. It took me a while to figure most of this stuff out unfortunately. As to what actions help town most, Ezio may not always be the person to listen to...

I think if Bob ends up being scum, we should look at Donny and Ezio. These kinds of comments are what make me think he's a comfortable townie and stifle my concern of him just going along with the general thread, but it's possible he could just feel more comfortable calling out his teammates.

[kgray]

Strange, because I have the opposite opinion.

What's your opinion of my scumread of you from D2? I think it still applies here and is a much better reason to scumread you than anything related to HR.

Macca hasn't seriously dug into any of the things that they have been commenting on. They've asked some decent questions and posted immediate reactions to what's happening, but it hasn't really manifested itself as decent reads. The one reads list they have posted has been rather superficial and mirrored existing sentiments heavily.

This case is so weak it's about on the level of bunny's tinfoil theory scumread, if not worse. This feels like a scum trying their best to get a counterwagon going with some strength, because he knows he's almost certainly screwed otherwise.

Eh. He's probably just town lol

[kgray]

HR was always a subscriber to the unholy alliance theory that the way to combat majority and town clears is to simply not do actual scumhunting. dont bus and dont put down threatening votes on people you think are scum. its really impossible without a daychat to coordinate it and it also requires groupthink so I cant say day 1 it was in play but are there any assumptions that celaph was not an alien but rather that hes maf?

I think celaph is more likely maf than alien.

[ghug]

HR was always a subscriber to the unholy alliance theory that the way to combat majority and town clears is to simply not do actual scumhunting. dont bus and dont put down threatening votes on people you think are scum. its really impossible without a daychat to coordinate it and it also requires groupthink so I cant say day 1 it was in play but are there any assumptions that celaph was not an alien but rather that hes maf?

I think celaph is more likely maf than alien.

Why?

[Donny Dude]

This is solid advice bona. Try to take it on board as much as possible. It took me a while to figure most of this stuff out unfortunately. As to what actions help town most, Ezio may not always be the person to listen to...

I think if Bob ends up being scum, we should look at Donny and Ezio. These kinds of comments are what make me think he's a comfortable townie and stifle my concern of him just going along with the general thread, but it's possible he could just feel more comfortable calling out his teammates.

I doubt that kgray, but I feel he is trying to get people to play and play in a way that is helpful to town such as his comment at me to post more thinking.

[celaph]

This case is so weak it's about on the level of bunny's tinfoil theory scumread, if not worse. This feels like a scum trying their best to get a counterwagon going with some strength, because he knows he's almost certainly screwed otherwise.

Please elaborate on why you think my argument is so weak. Show me where they have engaged meaningfully in the conversation and made deep, insightful pro-town comments.

Oh boy a relatively new player who is yet to really find their feet in mafia and regularly gets confused hasn't made any deep, insightful comments indicating that they have utilised their experience with the game to the benefit of town. Um, what was your case again? Macca isn't exactly the towniest person ever, but lack of towniness doesn't mean scumminess, especially in this case.

Luckily however, they aren't a total newbie and so instead of just deflecting and dismissing arguments under some premise of newbie incompetence, we can just compare performances.

Let me cherry pick out two messages from M61. The first is a defense and justification of Maniac's play. They analyze his actions and come to a conclusion that was unpopular among the town (see the message above). They consider his incentives as both town and scum for making such a play. And they acted on both of those aspects in a fashion that is internally consistent. For another example, see how they contributed to a wagon on Seth. Not only did they read the case and like it, they drew connections with the already made case to other comments and observations to further it. They commented on how Seth's impacts their conclusions.

Compare that to some of their notable comments this game. Besides the colors, their D2 reads list is purely parroting thoughts others have had. I feel similarly about their D1 reads list save the line "I didn't like the Bunny-Ghug go-between. I do not think these two are on the same team (including TT)." Beyond that, their comments have been very surface level, a fact we seem to agree on.

They're clearly capable of deep and insightful comments as they've made them in the past as town. One does not have to have fully found their feet in order to synthesize information can come to conclusions beyond what has already been said.

[celaph]

@ brain bomb @ ghug

Lol you guys are going the wrong way. Not gonna lie, to go out of the game for a second, it's kind of annoying that when I say something you find objectionable your first thought is that 'one of the guys must have given her a paragraph to copy and paste'. Obviously I've never had an opinion of my own or be able to put one into words..

I'll write more later but only engage with people who are interested in doing right things, I already wrote who I like and who I'm voting tomorrow so it's not like I have much to do over the night

I think you're great and I know this game/community is kinda a shitshow but I hope you keep playing!

Second this!

[Bonatogether]

Please elaborate on why you think my argument is so weak. Show me where they have engaged meaningfully in the conversation and made deep, insightful pro-town comments.

Oh boy a relatively new player who is yet to really find their feet in mafia and regularly gets confused hasn't made any deep, insightful comments indicating that they have utilised their experience with the game to the benefit of town. Um, what was your case again? Macca isn't exactly the towniest person ever, but lack of towniness doesn't mean scumminess, especially in this case.

Luckily however, they aren't a total newbie and so instead of just deflecting and dismissing arguments under some premise of newbie incompetence, we can just compare performances.

Let me cherry pick out two messages from M61. The first is a defense and justification of Maniac's play. They analyze his actions and come to a conclusion that was unpopular among the town (see the message above). They consider his incentives as both town and scum for making such a play. And they acted on both of those aspects in a fashion that is internally consistent. For another example, see how they contributed to a wagon on Seth. Not only did they read the case and like it, they drew connections with the already made case to other comments and observations to further it. They commented on how Seth's impacts their conclusions.

Compare that to some of their notable comments this game. Besides the colors, their D2 reads list is purely parroting thoughts others have had. I feel similarly about their D1 reads list save the line "I didn't like the Bunny-Ghug go-between. I do not think these two are on the same team (including TT)." Beyond that, their comments have been very surface level, a fact we seem to agree on.

They're clearly capable of deep and insightful comments as they've made them in the past as town. One does not have to have fully found their feet in order to synthesize information can come to conclusions beyond what has already been said.

Could he have been coached to make this remark? I don't see how celaph would know the details of previous games.

[kgray]

HR was always a subscriber to the unholy alliance theory that the way to combat majority and town clears is to simply not do actual scumhunting. dont bus and dont put down threatening votes on people you think are scum. its really impossible without a daychat to coordinate it and it also requires groupthink so I cant say day 1 it was in play but are there any assumptions that celaph was not an alien but rather that hes maf?

I think celaph is more likely maf than alien.

Why?

I cannot get over his comment suggesting people sheep me when I'd been going after both him and HR all of D2. I think it makes him likely town, but mafia is more likely than HR's scumbuddy.

Clearly he could be playing wifomy mind games but I just don't see the point.

[kgray]

Oh boy a relatively new player who is yet to really find their feet in mafia and regularly gets confused hasn't made any deep, insightful comments indicating that they have utilised their experience with the game to the benefit of town. Um, what was your case again? Macca isn't exactly the towniest person ever, but lack of towniness doesn't mean scumminess, especially in this case.

Luckily however, they aren't a total newbie and so instead of just deflecting and dismissing arguments under some premise of newbie incompetence, we can just compare performances.

Let me cherry pick out two messages from M61. The first is a defense and justification of Maniac's play. They analyze his actions and come to a conclusion that was unpopular among the town (see the message above). They consider his incentives as both town and scum for making such a play. And they acted on both of those aspects in a fashion that is internally consistent. For another example, see how they contributed to a wagon on Seth. Not only did they read the case and like it, they drew connections with the already made case to other comments and observations to further it. They commented on how Seth's impacts their conclusions.

Compare that to some of their notable comments this game. Besides the colors, their D2 reads list is purely parroting thoughts others have had. I feel similarly about their D1 reads list save the line "I didn't like the Bunny-Ghug go-between. I do not think these two are on the same team (including TT)." Beyond that, their comments have been very surface level, a fact we seem to agree on.

They're clearly capable of deep and insightful comments as they've made them in the past as town. One does not have to have fully found their feet in order to synthesize information can come to conclusions beyond what has already been said.

Could he have been coached to make this remark? I don't see how celaph would know the details of previous games.

The bot...? Why do people keep throwing around coaching accusations?

[kgray]

I think celaph is more likely maf than alien.

Why?

I cannot get over his comment suggesting people sheep me when I'd been going after both him and HR all of D2. I think it makes him likely town, but mafia is more likely than HR's scumbuddy.

Clearly he could be playing wifomy mind games but I just don't see the point.

But like actually, what scum who on their deathbed in a close EOD thinks the best way to go out is by suggesting town sheep someone who'd been pushing them all day? Who does that? Who even thinks of that?